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 Cop pulls gun on man picking up trash around his apt 
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WTF.

So, this happened earlier this year...

A guy is cleaning up trash around his apt, and a cop attempts to unlawfully detain him, with no articulable suspicion that a crime has occurred. You don't need to prove you live somewhere, he needs to prove you don't.


So, strike one, unlawful detention.


Then he escalates it, threatens the guy, who is still picking up trash/litter, and draws his gun, claiming he was afraid that his taser wouldn't work, because he was wearing a thick jacket.. So, you gonna shoot someone that you illegally detained, because he refuses to do what you ask, while picking up trash? Then claimed the claw picker was a weapon? WTF?


So, Strike 2, dipshit escalates it to threatening with lethal force.


Then, he stars getting yelled at by his superior for his stupid activities.. and he mutes his body cam... Obviously not wanting to have evidence of even more.


Strike 3, trying to hide shit.... fuck this guy...


But wait, there's more!

Obviously it's not a legal stop, and even his dep't acknowledges he fucked up, but before he can get terminated or even disciplined, he resigns, and makes an agreement to remain on the dept's payroll until February of 2020...

What. The. Fuck.


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Fri May 17, 2019 4:10 pm
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#trashmatters

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Fri May 17, 2019 4:25 pm
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He could have a rewarding and promising career with the New and Improved Seattle PD. He should apply.


Fri May 17, 2019 4:25 pm
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Shit, that was an interesting (but long) video.

The dude seemed a little off -- like saying, "really, people walk around with IDs that have their address in their pockets?". But, he had big stones in standing up to those cops, and in this case I admire that.

This was really just an ego issue for that first cop. I'm sure he knew he had fucked up in the first minute, but he JUST COULDN'T LET IT GO. He simply wasn't able to say, "OK man, sounds good, have a nice day." Instead, he felt compelled to finish the "show me your papers" routine, and in the end -- even with seven others to back him up -- he wasn't able to get all of the info he wanted.

He seemed incredulous when his boss said that they were going to let the guy go. Amazing.

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Leave it cleaner than you found it.


Fri May 17, 2019 4:53 pm
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Can you imagine mowing your lawn, and some cop stopping you and saying 'there's a sign there that says no trespassing, I need your ID to prove you're allowed to be here mowing this lawn'

Because that's basically what happened (just swap trash for lawn mowing).

Who the fuck is teaching these cops that this is OK?

From the looks of it, the guy was even on a public sidewalk.... what if he got out of his car at 7-11? 'Hey, I just saw you get out of that car, I need your ID to prove it's yours, and that you're supposed to be in it'

I just... don't fucking get it.

This is the most basic of shit... presumption of innocence...

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Fri May 17, 2019 5:09 pm
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Agreed with TW and Madpick and others that this officer royally screwed up. Thankfully he did not taze or shoot the unlawfully detained man.

I think we are seeing the byproduct of lowered police standards, as a consequence of police getting such negative treatment from the screwups from some police. It's a vicious cycle. Some bad cops do dumb things, and the public and media tears apart all cops, making less qualified people choose the career, resulting in yet more absurd screwups, making cops a target, and making even less qualified applicants, etc.

It is outrageous to have even begun harassing a man picking up trash on a public sidewalk area. He really could not be trespassing on a public sidewalk. The entire stop from the start was totally unjustified and unreasonable.

That cop has no business in a law enforcement job, poor decision making, and poor communication skills. And he did offer to show the cop where he lived...

I can only offer minor fault to the resident for not having an ID with a address and not providing it. But that's a minor consideration considering I often step out my front door without my wallet and ID...

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Fri May 17, 2019 7:22 pm
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leadcounsel wrote:

I can only offer minor fault to the resident for not having an ID with a address and not providing it.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought you didn't have to carry ID, when you are a US citizen?

**************
Here it is but it won't let me copy and paste.
http://freedom-school.com/travel/washington-law-at-rcw-46-61-021-does-not-require-me-to-give-you-my-date-of-birth-or-to-have-or-show-any-form-of-picture-identification.html

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Fri May 17, 2019 7:35 pm
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AR15L wrote:
leadcounsel wrote:

I can only offer minor fault to the resident for not having an ID with a address and not providing it.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought you didn't have to carry ID, when you are a US citizen?

**************
Here it is but it won't let me copy and paste.
http://freedom-school.com/travel/washington-law-at-rcw-46-61-021-does-not-require-me-to-give-you-my-date-of-birth-or-to-have-or-show-any-form-of-picture-identification.html


Here's a good primer on how Seattle PD is trained for detentions and Terry stops and when they can require ID versus not. http://www.seattle.gov/police-manual/ti ... detentions

But if you don't want to try to become a legal expert, it's easy to just carry ID and present when asked. Avoids a lot of problems. It also just falls into the category of being a good idea to have your ID when out in public. Lots of reasons:
* Medical treatment if there's an accident or healthcare emergency, so you can be easily ID'd and family contacted
* Providing to a LEO who asks to de-escalated a situation
* If you carry a firearm, driving a vehicle on public roads, or buying booze it's mandatory. So I pretty much always have my ID in public since I'm probably doing all 3... :thumbsup2: :wink05:

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Fri May 17, 2019 8:03 pm
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leadcounsel wrote:
* If you carry a firearm (..)


No ID or CPL needed if open carrying.

The same would be for the 'I need to make sure you're not a felon'.. unlawful stop

I see fruit of the poisonous tree.. He could've pulled out a crack pipe and smoked it and it's still an illegal stop. lol

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Fri May 17, 2019 8:26 pm
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leadcounsel wrote:
AR15L wrote:
leadcounsel wrote:

I can only offer minor fault to the resident for not having an ID with a address and not providing it.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought you didn't have to carry ID, when you are a US citizen?

**************
Here it is but it won't let me copy and paste.
http://freedom-school.com/travel/washington-law-at-rcw-46-61-021-does-not-require-me-to-give-you-my-date-of-birth-or-to-have-or-show-any-form-of-picture-identification.html


Here's a good primer on how Seattle PD is trained for detentions and Terry stops and when they can require ID versus not. http://www.seattle.gov/police-manual/ti ... detentions

But if you don't want to try to become a legal expert, it's easy to just carry ID and present when asked. Avoids a lot of problems. It also just falls into the category of being a good idea to have your ID when out in public. Lots of reasons:
* Medical treatment if there's an accident or healthcare emergency, so you can be easily ID'd and family contacted
* Providing to a LEO who asks to de-escalated a situation
* If you carry a firearm, driving a vehicle on public roads, or buying booze it's mandatory. So I pretty much always have my ID in public since I'm probably doing all 3... :thumbsup2: :wink05:

Yet, an ID is too much to ask for, and racist, according to democrats as a requirement to vote.


Fri May 17, 2019 8:40 pm
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TechnoWeenie wrote:
leadcounsel wrote:
* If you carry a firearm (..)


No ID or CPL needed if open carrying.

The same would be for the 'I need to make sure you're not a felon'.. unlawful stop

I see fruit of the poisonous tree.. He could've pulled out a crack pipe and smoked it and it's still an illegal stop. lol


Incorrect.

First, carrying a gun would possibly rise to RAS or PC for stopping and disarming under a Terry stop, based on the situation. It's one reason I'm against OC practice. Too much opportunity for LEO harassment.

A new separate unrelated crime would sever the alleged "fruits of a poisoned tree" issue. The "fruits" have to be related, and otherwise undiscoverable absent such an unlawful stop.

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Fri May 17, 2019 9:12 pm
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CPL is not needed either, carrying concealed at home or your business.

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Fri May 17, 2019 9:16 pm
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Video wouldn't play for me...

But this happened earlier this year, in another jurisdiction, and the cop has resigned.

The guy whose rights were violated will probably sue & get a settlement.

I have enough things in life to get upset about, without getting enraged over every article on the Internet where the loose ends have already been tied up.

Egregious violation, most definitely. Worthy of getting worked up now that the right outcome has already occurred? No.


Fri May 17, 2019 9:32 pm
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Must be nice to get a year paid vacation to help find a new career...

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Fri May 17, 2019 10:34 pm
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leadcounsel wrote:
TechnoWeenie wrote:
leadcounsel wrote:
* If you carry a firearm (..)


No ID or CPL needed if open carrying.

The same would be for the 'I need to make sure you're not a felon'.. unlawful stop

I see fruit of the poisonous tree.. He could've pulled out a crack pipe and smoked it and it's still an illegal stop. lol


Incorrect.

First, carrying a gun would possibly rise to RAS or PC for stopping and disarming under a Terry stop, based on the situation.


What crime is afoot by merely open carrying?

State vs. Casad ruled that merely open carrying was not enough to warrant a detention.

also, Florida VS J. L. where USSC ruled that a mere complaint of carrying a firearm was not sufficient to detain and the state argued there was a 'firearm exemption' to the 4th for officer safety and the courts refused that argument stating that if someone could be disarmed/detained merely for being in the presence of an officer, one wouldn't be able to lawfully carry as they could be detained by any cop that saw them, obviously BS. Florida reiterated that in performing a frisk someone must be both armed AND dangerous, as being armed doesn't necessarily mean they're dangerous, see above for the 'no firearm exemption for the 4th' above..

:D

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Fri May 17, 2019 11:11 pm
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