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It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 5:39 am
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Nitro_Guns
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
Location: Lynnwood Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 Posts: 2496
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joao01 wrote: Sporting Systems in Vancouver posted yesterday they've got training certificates. Do they meet any of these requirements? This is where I see a potential issue. How is the FFL to know all of this? "The training must be sponsored by a federal, state, county, or municipal law enforcement agency, a college or university, a nationally recognized organization that customarily offers firearms training, or a firearms training school with instructors certified by a nationally recognized organization that customarily offers firearms training.
_________________ aka Big_Daddy
Nitro Products FFL Dealer SOT Dealer
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Thu May 16, 2019 5:59 am |
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joao01
Site Supporter
Location: Midwest Joined: Thu Oct 2, 2014 Posts: 8645
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Pablo wrote: joao01 wrote: Sporting Systems in Vancouver posted yesterday they've got training certificates. How much? I just need one. https://sporting-systems.com/contact/
_________________Massivedesign wrote: I am thinking of a number somewhere between none of and your business.
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Thu May 16, 2019 6:06 am |
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hkcavalier
Site Supporter
Location: NE WA Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 Posts: 5470
Real Name: The Dude
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It makes me wonder if the whole point of the "training certificate" is just to open the door to lawsuits against the FFLs and/or the trainers.
_________________ "Wherever you go, there you are."
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Thu May 16, 2019 8:21 am |
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Pablo
Site Supporter
Location: Everson, WA Joined: Sun Jan 6, 2013 Posts: 28149
Real Name: Ace Winky
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hkcavalier wrote: It makes me wonder if the whole point of the "training certificate" is just to open the door to lawsuits against the FFLs and/or the trainers. It's that. It's an impairment. In every sense of the word. We need CNN and the Democrats to tell us we have a state constitutional crisis.
_________________ Why does the Penguin in Batman sound like a duck?
Because the eagle sounds like a hawk.
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Thu May 16, 2019 8:25 am |
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WaJim
In Memoriam
Location: Tacoma Wa Joined: Tue Oct 8, 2013 Posts: 16607
Real Name: George Bailey
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More laws for the law abiding isn't going to fix anything.
We all know that.
But I've in the past shot at a few public shooting areas.....
A good portion of those people could use some safe-gun handling instruction.
_________________ "Remove one freedom per generation and soon you will have no freedom and no one would have noticed."......Carl Marx
"Let us Cross the river and sit in the shade of the trees" .....Stonewall Jackson
T. Jefferson "....the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. it is it's natural manure"
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Thu May 16, 2019 8:57 am |
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dreadi
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
Location: Tacoma, Washington Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 Posts: 8328
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WaJim wrote: More laws for the law abiding isn't going to fix anything.
We all know that.
But I've in the past shot at a few public shooting areas.....
A good portion of those people could use some safe-gun handling instruction. How about a buttstock to the face for muzzle sweeping the line?
_________________BLACK HAMMER ARMSBuy A Suppressor http://www.silencershop.com/blackhammerarmsType 7 Class 2 SOT NFA Dealer 1911 Pistolsmithing Firearm Refinishing GLOCK Certified Armorer CMMG Authorized Dealer NEMO Arms Authorized Dealer http://www.blackhammerarms.comhttp://www.facebook.com/blackhammerarmshttps://www.instagram.com/blackhammerarms/
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Thu May 16, 2019 9:06 am |
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Arisaka
Site Supporter
Location: Tacoma Joined: Sat May 4, 2013 Posts: 6196
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dreadi wrote: WaJim wrote: More laws for the law abiding isn't going to fix anything.
We all know that.
But I've in the past shot at a few public shooting areas.....
A good portion of those people could use some safe-gun handling instruction. How about a buttstock to the face for muzzle sweeping the line?
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Thu May 16, 2019 9:14 am |
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quantsuff
Site Supporter
Location: central wa Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 Posts: 3552
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hkcavalier wrote: It makes me wonder if the whole point of the "training certificate" is just to open the door to lawsuits against the FFLs and/or the trainers. It's true that anyone can sue anyone, but help me understand who/what scenario someone would *win* a suit?
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Thu May 16, 2019 9:31 am |
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hkcavalier
Site Supporter
Location: NE WA Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 Posts: 5470
Real Name: The Dude
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quantsuff wrote: hkcavalier wrote: It makes me wonder if the whole point of the "training certificate" is just to open the door to lawsuits against the FFLs and/or the trainers. It's true that anyone can sue anyone, but help me understand who/what scenario someone would *win* a suit? 1. Buyer gets certificate from Trainer 2. Buyer purchases gun 3. Buyer uses gun unlawfully 4. Aggrieved Party / Prosecutor investigates 5. Trainer is sued due to some perceived lack in "x" area While a trainer can probably require a hold harmless agreement from the trained, they certainly cannot do so from some 3rd party. Get ready to test that liability insurance. /insurance agent
_________________ "Wherever you go, there you are."
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Thu May 16, 2019 10:54 am |
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Old Growth
Site Supporter
Location: Nisqually Valley Joined: Wed Oct 5, 2016 Posts: 4814
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hkcavalier wrote: quantsuff wrote: hkcavalier wrote: It makes me wonder if the whole point of the "training certificate" is just to open the door to lawsuits against the FFLs and/or the trainers. It's true that anyone can sue anyone, but help me understand who/what scenario someone would *win* a suit? 1. Buyer gets certificate from Trainer 2. Buyer purchases gun 3. Buyer uses gun unlawfully 4. Aggrieved Party / Prosecutor investigates 5. Trainer is sued due to some perceived lack in "x" area While a trainer can probably require a hold harmless agreement from the trained, they certainly cannot do so from some 3rd party. Get ready to test that liability insurance. /insurance agent Has a hunters ED instructor ever been sued over a hunting accident?
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Thu May 16, 2019 11:03 am |
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ViniVidivici
Location: Puyallup Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2018 Posts: 3027
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So in counties where local LEO have stated they won't enforce 1639, can gun stores in those counties get by with ignoring all the 1639 bullshit?
_________________ I'm a Morlock, in a land of Eloi...
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Thu May 16, 2019 12:11 pm |
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quantsuff
Site Supporter
Location: central wa Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 Posts: 3552
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hkcavalier wrote: quantsuff wrote: hkcavalier wrote: It makes me wonder if the whole point of the "training certificate" is just to open the door to lawsuits against the FFLs and/or the trainers. It's true that anyone can sue anyone, but help me understand who/what scenario someone would *win* a suit? 1. Buyer gets certificate from Trainer 2. Buyer purchases gun 3. Buyer uses gun unlawfully 4. Aggrieved Party / Prosecutor investigates 5. Trainer is sued due to some perceived lack in "x" area While a trainer can probably require a hold harmless agreement from the trained, they certainly cannot do so from some 3rd party. Get ready to test that liability insurance. /insurance agent Thanks for the follow up/ clarification. My assessment is this scenario is extremely improbable, likely very difficult for the plaintiff to investigate/win, but potentially significantly damaging if it occurs. For me, I'll approach similarly to other low-probability-but-high-mortality events.
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Thu May 16, 2019 12:33 pm |
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3584ELK
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
Location: Lake Andes, S. Dakota Joined: Thu Aug 8, 2013 Posts: 1250
Real Name: Mark
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I am late to the party (as usual) on this discussion, but it seems to me that a thread titled Gun Shop Wait Times is not the best way to get FFL's to chime in as to their policies re: transfers come July 1. The thread title seems to survey WaGuns for the time they may have spent waiting at the counter for service.
No digs at Arisaka, just my opinion. Trivia Q: how many folks know what Arisaka's sig pic shows?
How about we start a thread where FFL's are solicited for their policies and pricing changes (if any) come July 1?
As for me, I have stated elsewhere on this site that I might not accept transfers between July 1 and August 1. That is not to punish the customer, but it is in anticipation of how EFFED UP this mess will be. Trust the state Firearms Unit to make things difficult, clunky, and contradictory. The so called FFL training on their site is dated 2012. Real efficient, Mr. Tanaka.
Already I had a young man (20 years of age) call and ask if we could "work something out due to this new law." He had been to a gun shop in Port Orchard and was told he could not receive a pump shotgun via private party transfer. I invited him to come by for a transfer, but also to do his own research. He called me back and advised me that I was wrong. He had called 5 or 6 other dealers and they all informed him that it was illegal for him to have a pump shotgun. Okay, I told him he should not do anything he believed to be illegal. The next day, he informed me by text that the Port Orchard dealer had changed his mind. SIGH
There is a lot of confusion surrounding this new burden the voters have placed on us.
BTW, has anyone found any language regarding restrictions on lower receivers or frames?
_________________"To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical." - Thomas Jefferson
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Thu May 16, 2019 1:43 pm |
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hkcavalier
Site Supporter
Location: NE WA Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 Posts: 5470
Real Name: The Dude
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3584ELK wrote: Trivia Q: how many folks know what Arisaka's sig pic shows? The Japanese chrysanthemum stamp, denoting ownership by the Emperor aka the Imperial Seal of Japan.
_________________ "Wherever you go, there you are."
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Thu May 16, 2019 2:38 pm |
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 51919
Real Name: Steve
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3584ELK wrote: Trivia Q: how many folks know what Arisaka's sig pic shows? I know, but I'll stay mum for now so others can guess. 3584ELK wrote: Already I had a young man (20 years of age) call and ask if we could "work something out due to this new law." He had been to a gun shop in Port Orchard and was told he could not receive a pump shotgun via private party transfer. I invited him to come by for a transfer, but also to do his own research. He called me back and advised me that I was wrong. He had called 5 or 6 other dealers and they all informed him that it was illegal for him to have a pump shotgun. Okay, I told him he should not do anything he believed to be illegal. The next day, he informed me by text that the Port Orchard dealer had changed his mind. SIGH That is SO infuriating . . . there is so much misinformation out there. Somebody says something that's flat-out wrong on Facebook (or WaGuns!), other people take it at face value and re-post it somewhere else . . . it's just maddening.[/quote] 3584ELK wrote: BTW, has anyone found any language regarding restrictions on lower receivers or frames? Not as far as age of ownership . . . but they will need to wait for LE to do the background check, just like for handguns, come July 1st. So, 3584ELK . . . do you have a policy yet for when you'll release a gun to the buyer if you don't hear back from LE?
_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Thu May 16, 2019 5:13 pm |
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