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It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:11 pm
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Greenwater FS 7013 Clearcut: Closed to Shooting
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 51917
Real Name: Steve
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Powderman wrote: This isn't going to be too well received...but here goes....
The reason that we ARE going to lose more shooting areas...is because of people.
Not the WaGunners...every one of you that I have had the honor of shooting with, has been a good, responsible shooter.
You know what ruins it? The trigger tramps. The ones who DON'T shoot responsibly.
The ones who SHOULDN'T be shooting--and should NOT be in possession of firearms in the first place.
These are the people who pack in a ton of trash and LEAVE IT. The ones who spray bullets all over the place and think it's funny. These are the ones who get shooting areas closed down.
As an example, one time I went to Triangle Pit with a couple of other folks from my Department. We set up some targets on portable stands to warm up with some "El Presidente" drills. It was pretty busy, but we set up where we could shoot safely. After we set up targets, we started putting on our gear.
Guess what happened as soon as the jackets came off and badges were visible?
FULLY 3/4 OF THE PEOPLE THERE SUDDENLY FOUND THAT THEY DIDN'T WANT TO SHOOT ANY MORE. They left in a HURRY.
And, THEY ALL LEFT THEIR TRASH BEHIND.
We spread tarps to catch the brass, and took our shot up targets with us. We filled up a couple of trash bags, too.
This is just sad...so, what to do? I recommend supporting your local range and club. Get some shooters in these clubs, and attend the meetings. Make yourself heard! Volunteer time as an RSO, and work the range. Get the board and the membership on track to host some shooting events, and get them open to the ideas of different types of shooting.
Hopefully, this will provide some relief. Powderman, I agree with what you're saying . . . but I think the issue here is that the USFS is just using the trash an an excuse, and it's not the real reason for the closure. That said, some of our shooting brethren are an absolute embarrassment to the community, no doubt about it.
_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:08 am |
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STED9R
Site Supporter
Location: Puyallup Joined: Thu Jul 5, 2012 Posts: 3060
Real Name: Glenn(sted)
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MADrtcw wrote: STED9R wrote: Well, fuck...... Now I've got to take the truck up there and grab the hidden steel plates I've left up to shoot for past 10+ years, because some worthless piece of shit will find the cool spot to shoot and find my targets. Sadly, there's not much for safe spots that have more than 50yd distance to shoot until you crest the PCT and head down the east side. Everywhere else, are Jeep trails and small pullouts. There's a nice area at government camp to chill out and relax in the woods. It gets trashy once in a while, I'd venture to say this will be the next eyesore, and negative physical conflict during elk archery.......
I believe it's a full combination of events that lead to the closure. If the pit remained clean and worthless fuckers didn't trash the place and shoot unsafely, the state and homeowners wouldn't have a stump of a leg to stand on. Yes, the homeowners are loud in their complaining. But it all brings it forefront by the above worthless fucks. Worthless and unsafe assholes succeeded in getting it closed.
So next contact from Ranger Rick will be asking for help cleaning up a dozen trashed pullouts on a 20 mile stretch past the closed pit. Which is going to limit volunteers due to wheelbase/height and distance. We told them a long time ago to their faces that we were not going to be cleaning up 20 different areas. They’re very aware of what’s going to happen but closing 7013 is more important than the other issues that WILL come of this. Sadly, this area will be the poster child for mismanagement and citizen abuse. Unless they find AND build a couple of new manageable area's close to where pavement ends, the destruction of the forest will only grow. They can't gate off the road, but they very well could stop all recreational shooting west of the PCT due to safety and destruction of resources. I ride up there all the time to practice distance shooting and get out on two wheels to explore the forest and have a great day without people once I leave the pavement. I do see a couple people at pullout areas miles past the pavement, but it's just a couple people and even then some of those areas are dirty, not trashed but definitely well used. Those areas will get trashed, and more areas further up the hill will start seeing abuse. Hell, until you get over the PCT there's no area that's even close to 100yds long and timber everywhere, do they think for a moment these fuckers aren't going to shoot up revenue(trees)!? The guys out riding their Jeep's all thru the woods are risking life now, hell I'm pulling my plates and will probably move them to an area in Packwood where I won't have to worry about riding and having worthless assholes shooting all over. Sad, it's a nice ride going up and over. The appliances hunters are the ones that made it easy to shut down the shooting area, the homeowners where just what started the process. After a few years of the trash moving east, someone shot with a stray bullet, destruction of trees, out of control fire from someone and complaints of safety, all westside shooting will be put on hold until further investigation..... Great job worthless appliance hunters, you fucks....
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Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:14 am |
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PW45
Site Supporter
Location: Maple Valley Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 Posts: 844
Real Name: PW
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edit: redacted
_________________ NRA Patriot Patron Life Member SAF Life Member
Last edited by PW45 on Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:18 pm |
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earl
Location: here Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2018 Posts: 1
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Powderman wrote: As an example, one time I went to Triangle Pit with a couple of other folks from my Department. We set up some targets on portable stands to warm up with some "El Presidente" drills. It was pretty busy, but we set up where we could shoot safely. After we set up targets, we started putting on our gear.
Guess what happened as soon as the jackets came off and badges were visible?
FULLY 3/4 OF THE PEOPLE THERE SUDDENLY FOUND THAT THEY DIDN'T WANT TO SHOOT ANY MORE. They left in a HURRY.
And, THEY ALL LEFT THEIR TRASH BEHIND. So I take it you're some sort of law enforcement officer. I'm not excusing leaving trash, but I don't blame them for leaving. There are enough asshole cops that I would rather shoot somewhere else or just come back another day than risk being around one of the bad apples. Maybe a suggestion for you would be that if you're recreationally shooting, dress and act like recreational shooters and leave the badges at home. Not that doing so guarantees people aren't going to flee. When tacti-tards roll up in head to toe MOLLE, I tend to pack up and leave anyway.
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Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:23 pm |
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CQBgopher
Site Supporter
Location: WA/MT Joined: Thu Sep 6, 2012 Posts: 8265
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.
Last edited by CQBgopher on Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:00 pm |
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NWGunner
Site Supporter
Location: South Seattle Joined: Thu May 2, 2013 Posts: 12419
Real Name: Steve
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earl wrote: Powderman wrote: As an example, one time I went to Triangle Pit with a couple of other folks from my Department. We set up some targets on portable stands to warm up with some "El Presidente" drills. It was pretty busy, but we set up where we could shoot safely. After we set up targets, we started putting on our gear.
Guess what happened as soon as the jackets came off and badges were visible?
FULLY 3/4 OF THE PEOPLE THERE SUDDENLY FOUND THAT THEY DIDN'T WANT TO SHOOT ANY MORE. They left in a HURRY.
And, THEY ALL LEFT THEIR TRASH BEHIND. So I take it you're some sort of law enforcement officer. I'm not excusing leaving trash, but I don't blame them for leaving. There are enough asshole cops that I would rather shoot somewhere else or just come back another day than risk being around one of the bad apples. Maybe a suggestion for you would be that if you're recreationally shooting, dress and act like recreational shooters and leave the badges at home. Not that doing so guarantees people aren't going to flee. When tacti-tards roll up in head to toe MOLLE, I tend to pack up and leave anyway. Well, since "making a suggestion for" people you know nothing about is somehow okay in yor world, maybe hang out for awhile & get to know people before you start passing judgement & lifestyle advice. Maybe the people bailing if someone with a badge is shooting next to them isn't who you want getting better with a gun.... Just a thought. Either way, maybe get to know people before you start telling them how to live their life.
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Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:42 pm |
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vic_b
Site Supporter
Location: Maple valley Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 Posts: 3516
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Last time I was shooting and a group of badges showed up, I watched for a bit. Figgered I might learn something.
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Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:15 pm |
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cmica
Site Supporter
Location: I-5 /512 Joined: Thu Dec 8, 2011 Posts: 15212
Real Name: chris
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I'd stick around badges anytime...love watching other run with tails between legs....their up to no good then
_________________
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Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:21 pm |
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STED9R
Site Supporter
Location: Puyallup Joined: Thu Jul 5, 2012 Posts: 3060
Real Name: Glenn(sted)
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dan360 wrote: earl wrote: Powderman wrote: As an example, one time I went to Triangle Pit with a couple of other folks from my Department. We set up some targets on portable stands to warm up with some "El Presidente" drills. It was pretty busy, but we set up where we could shoot safely. After we set up targets, we started putting on our gear.
Guess what happened as soon as the jackets came off and badges were visible?
FULLY 3/4 OF THE PEOPLE THERE SUDDENLY FOUND THAT THEY DIDN'T WANT TO SHOOT ANY MORE. They left in a HURRY.
And, THEY ALL LEFT THEIR TRASH BEHIND. So I take it you're some sort of law enforcement officer. I'm not excusing leaving trash, but I don't blame them for leaving. There are enough asshole cops that I would rather shoot somewhere else or just come back another day than risk being around one of the bad apples. Maybe a suggestion for you would be that if you're recreationally shooting, dress and act like recreational shooters and leave the badges at home. Not that doing so guarantees people aren't going to flee. When tacti-tards roll up in head to toe MOLLE, I tend to pack up and leave anyway. Welcome to Waguns. Now that that's out of the way. Apologies to Madpick and the masses here but if you're going to talk about asshole cops and tacti-tards you should read more and type less, for the individual you have quoted here is neither of those. He can speak for himself but sometimes the masses can speak as well. And while we are on the subject where exactly is "here". Are you hiding? Or geographically confused? An for a first time poster with absolutely zero idea or knowledge of the members here, you may have just soured your chance for trust with a few in here.
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Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:50 pm |
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Massivedesign
Site Admin
Location: Olympia, WA Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 Posts: 38291
Real Name: Dan
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I think you guys got the new guy handled, thanks. I did my part, I removed FS 7013 from our Range Map....
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Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:56 am |
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MADrtcw
Site Supporter
Location: South Seattle Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 Posts: 495
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Bottom line is that we need more support out there when we have these clean and shoots or meetings about target shooting on public lands. In the past we would have 30+ people from the forums everytime at these cleans. What i am seeing now a days are responses to these closures like " I'll just go deeper in the woods then" , " I don't shoot there anyways", etc. To many don't help because it's not where they shoot; I didn't shoot there either besides clean and shoots but i understand the more areas that get shut down the more likely people will find your deep in the woods special area. Then of course the bitching starts after they find it.
I'm not singling out anyone specific BTW but get involved even if you don't shoot at certain areas.
_________________ A sniper without a sniper rifle is just a guy with a gun.
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Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:15 am |
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Powderman
Location: WA State Joined: Fri Feb 8, 2013 Posts: 656
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MADrtcw wrote: Bottom line is that we need more support out there when we have these clean and shoots or meetings about target shooting on public lands. In the past we would have 30+ people from the forums everytime at these cleans. What i am seeing now a days are responses to these closures like " I'll just go deeper in the woods then" , " I don't shoot there anyways", etc. To many don't help because it's not where they shoot; I didn't shoot there either besides clean and shoots but i understand the more areas that get shut down the more likely people will find your deep in the woods special area. Then of course the bitching starts after they find it.
I'm not singling out anyone specific BTW but get involved even if you don't shoot at certain areas. You are spot on...but from what I can see, it appears that there is no easy solution. I went out twice for the clean ups at Triangle Pit, and I marveled at the amount of trash that was pulled out. After we were done, it really looked nice, and lent itself to some constructive bullet slinging. The problem is not with the people trying their level best to keep the areas clean--it's the people who don't give a crap who come out, poop all over the area (figuratively speaking, of course) and leave a mess with absolutely no thought to cleaning up after themselves. It is a sad fact that there are just as many--if not more--slob shooters as there are courteous shooters out there.
_________________ I hunt the things that go bump in the night....
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Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:23 pm |
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xman
Location: washington Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2013 Posts: 453
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I used to clean the Elbe pit quite often. Sometimes the next day it would be trashed. Happened multiple times and I gave up. People would dump truckloads of trash and shoot it up. Weekend after weekend.
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Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:30 pm |
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Ops
Site Supporter
Location: Piece/Clallam Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 Posts: 10688
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the rangers are lying and full of shit. corruption. drive across the bridge and youll see the homeless encampments along the road. they are just like seattle
_________________Yaki's - last journeyPromote a Growth Mindset. Don't let a fixed mindset not allow change for the better.
pow·er trip - noun - a self-aggrandizing quest for ever-increasing control over others.
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Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:37 pm |
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Powderman
Location: WA State Joined: Fri Feb 8, 2013 Posts: 656
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xman wrote: I used to clean the Elbe pit quite often. Sometimes the next day it would be trashed. Happened multiple times and I gave up. People would dump truckloads of trash and shoot it up. Weekend after weekend. Sadly enough, this is what I'm talking about. What is the solution, then? I believe that the only way to ensure that our open-shoot areas stay open for much longer is to actually man them. I do recognize that this is not necessarily a feasible or even possible solution. We would be acting as monitors over a bunch of people who may or may not give a darn. And enforcement of any regulations or guidelines would be extremely difficult--if not impossible. As the saying goes...this is why some people can't have nice things. Does anyone know if there is, indeed, a feasible or workable solution--short of WaGunners turning into housekeepers on a weekly basis? (Yes, maybe I'm being more than a bit cynical here, but it is SO frustrating to see a few range pigs spoil the opportunities.)
_________________ I hunt the things that go bump in the night....
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Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:40 pm |
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