How is ATF currently enforcing Final Rule 41F? (Click here if you don't know what that is)

I have not filed any new NFA applications using my trust (Silver Edition trust from NW Gun Law Group) since 41F was enacted, but I am considering a couple more silencer purchases if the right deal comes along.

What I'm not sure about is how ATF (or the FFL/SOT facilitating the NFA application) can even enforce the required background checks on Responsible Persons of my Trust aside from the Grantor (me).

For example, my Trust Agreement does not list Co-trustees. Instead, there are separate forms within the Trust Portfolio for adding Co-trustees (one form for the Grantor to add the Co-trustee, and one form for the new Co-trustee to accept). These forms are to be kept with the Trust Agreement, but they are not actually part of the Trust Agreement. And since the Trust Agreement (including Exhibit A) is the only trust document submitted to ATF with NFA applications , there would be no way for either the FFL/SOT or ATF to know whether all Responsible Persons of my trust had been background-checked prior to approval of my application, since they have no record of Co-trustee appointments. (For the record, I have not named any Co-trustees; I only have Beneficiaries, but they don't have any directive/management authority).

So I guess my question is this: Is compliance with 41F on the honor system? How are FFL/SOTs going about verifying that applications are compliant?

*I'm not a lawyer*

That's a pretty good way to do it but you are running afoul of the law. It probably depends on how the addendum is referenced in the trust whether they would catch it or not. Either way you're probably submitting incomplete paperwork if co trustees aren't included. What the penalty for that is? I don't know, they kick it back and ask for more? When I wrote my trust I looked at a number of different ways to have my wife on the trust but not as a responsible person (I was worried about her being 'in possession' while I wasn't home) and there wasn't any good way to do that so I made her a co-trustee. She's a good sport so I wasn't too worried about it.

I'm just going through the processes for a form 1 and went with the silencer shop service. It wasn't so bad since it's just my wife and me. My parents are listed as successor trustees but I don't believe they will need documentation. At least I hope they don't, Mom is in a different state and Dad isn't alive anymore. I'll have to redo the trust if that's a problem. The good thing about the SS system is that I won't have to hit my wife up for fingerprints and a photo every time I want to form 1 something or buy a suppressor through SS.

What if you simply remove all the trustees before buying a new item, and add them back after?

When I bought my most recent suppressors in May '18 I heard my LGS say that only grantors or controlling trustees need to submit info. Beneficiaries do not. That is my recollection of the conversation. I (or he) could be wrong, but it seems legit [emoji28]

That is one way to do it

The problem with that approach is that while you are waiting for an approval the other trustees can't (shouldn't) have access to anything in the trust

To get around this many people do unique trusts for each item

Blah Blah Blah Trust #1
Blah Blah Blah Trust #2
Blah Blah Blah Trust #3

That's a good point. That would be a long time to not have access.

I was just thinki ng g about this today. Because i was thinking about some purchases, but not sure if its better just do it individually and then add them to the trust later. But is that a 594 process at that point? What if i rebase my trust in OR and my father becomes a trustee and responsible person. Can he buy for the trust and ignore 1695's new garbage? Or does buying in WA with a trust take you out of 1695 territory?

Lots of new questions and pitfalls i feel.

How so?

All responsible people on the trust need to complete a 5320.23

If you have responsible people hidden in a separate schedule they are still required to complete the form

ETA- This is the part that would run afoul of the law:

As I noted in the OP, I do not currently have any Responsible Persons on my trust besides myself. The only way I could be afoul of the law is if I did have Responsible Persons but failed to submit their info with a NFA application (which I have not done).

What I'm getting at here with my questions is how ATF can enforce something without full knowledge. In other words, how would they know they should deny a NFA application on the grounds that not all Responsible Persons had submitted BGC info if they don't even know those Responsible Persons exist? Or how about the FFL/SOT checking the application before submission - if they're not aware of Responsible Persons (outside the Grantor) because they are not listed in the Trust Agreement, would they not assume everything was kosher and consider the application complete?

And let's say someone submits a NFA application without fingerprints and photos for their other Responsible Persons, and the application is approved. How would ATF even know the tax stamp was issued in error? How could they even bring a case against the offending transferee without evidence (which they don't have)?

Is there any reference in your trust to other documents that list Co-trustees?

For the sake of argument what would happen if you just had two different trusts with the same name? Nobody would know unless the ATF investigated.

My trust agreement contains a section that prescribes how Co-trustees are to be added or removed, and that section requires that those additions/removals must be in writing and that copies of those documents may be kept with the trust agreement. But those documents are only referred to in the general sense; no specific document or set of documents is mentioned by name. Neither are other Trustees mentioned by name anywhere in the trust agreement, except Successor Trustees, which NW Gun Law Group says are not considered Responsible Persons per 41F. Only I am listed as a Trustee in the opening section that establishes my trust. I could re-state the trust to name others, or I could use the forms provided to appoint Co-trustees, but as I said I have not done either of those yet.

I guess my point in all this is that even though 41F is purportedly "closing the trust/LLC loophole", it doesn't actually do that if there is no active ATF verification that all Responsible Parties to a named Trust or Corporation have actually submitted fingerprints & photos and submitted themselves to a BGC. From my end, there doesn't appear to be any such verification process, so that is why I started this thread; others may be aware of such a process after having been through it and can shed light on it for me.

There is little to no reason to use a Trust these days without Co-Trusties. Especially with the new fancy eForm 1s.

Its simpler to just do Individual on items, and handle inheritance through your normal Estate Planning.

Except if your plan is to acquire NFA items without the hassle of 41F, and then appoint your Co-trustees when you're "done" buying (ha!).

Thanks, I needed a laugh