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 Carrying on school property as armed employee 
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amc82 wrote:
Is it lawful for a licensed security guard to carry his firearm on school property?



Can you clarify the question?

Are you asking if it’s lawful for a security guard employed by the school to carry on school property, or you asking if someone that is a security guard, who happens to be at the school, say, as a parent, can lawfully carry on school property?


Tue Sep 13, 2022 11:59 pm
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NWGunner wrote:
amc82 wrote:
Is it lawful for a licensed security guard to carry his firearm on school property?



Can you clarify the question?

Are you asking if it’s lawful for a security guard employed by the school to carry on school property, or you asking if someone that is a security guard, who happens to be at the school, say, as a parent, can lawfully carry on school property?


Luckily, both scenarios have been answered in this thread.


Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:11 am
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curiouscuz wrote:
based on my read of RCW(s), quoted below...the blunt answer is NO.

RCW 9.41.280 Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities—Penalty—Exceptions.
(1) It is unlawful for a person to knowingly carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools, or areas of facilities while being used for official meetings of a school district board of directors:
(a) Any firearm;

(2) Any such person violating subsection (1) of this section is guilty of a misdemeanor.

(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:
(a) Any student or employee of a private military academy when on the property of the academy;
(b) Any person engaged in military, law enforcement, or school district security activities. However, a person who is not a commissioned law enforcement officer and who provides school security services under the direction of a school administrator may not possess a device listed in subsection (1)(f) of this section unless he or she has successfully completed training in the use of such devices that is equivalent to the training received by commissioned law enforcement officers;


You're not exactly correct. The exception clause in 3(b) specifically calls out that non-LE security cannot carry devices listed in (1)(f), which is a taser that shoots the prongs, unless you're trained in that use.

If you are hired for security at the school, you are allowed to carry. "School district security activities." A good non-specific phrase. The inclusion of "Any person engaged" would lead me to believe that if you're from a school where you provide security, you could carry at other schools. The "engaged" part may be a working hours only designation.

Related rabbit hole:
The best exemption, which I have never heard discussed, is later on, in (3)(g): "(g) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age who is in lawful possession of an unloaded firearm, secured in a vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school; or"

Anyone who knows English knows that there is a difference between "an" and "the" when writing.

So to outline it more clearly, Subsection 1 (unlawful to carry/possess on school premises) does not apply (you are exempt from this section) if "an unloaded firearm" is secured in your vehicle.

The exemption does not state that your EDC must be unloaded and locked in your vehicle. Just an unloaded firearm. Or an unloaded rifle, locked in your car, would exempt you from the law.

As far as the federal GFSZ goes, there's a clause in there that exempts you if you are "licensed." It's been a while since I read the section, but it's vague. Licensed by whom to do what? Licensed to drive? Licensed to practice medicine? Marry people? A state-issued Concealed Pistol License is a license. Plain reading of the law indicates I, as a CPL holder, can carry on school grounds, exempt from the GFSZ.


Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:01 am
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mikeyb wrote:
curiouscuz wrote:
based on my read of RCW(s), quoted below...the blunt answer is NO.

RCW 9.41.280 Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities—Penalty—Exceptions.
(1) It is unlawful for a person to knowingly carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools, or areas of facilities while being used for official meetings of a school district board of directors:
(a) Any firearm;

(2) Any such person violating subsection (1) of this section is guilty of a misdemeanor.

(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:
(a) Any student or employee of a private military academy when on the property of the academy;
(b) Any person engaged in military, law enforcement, or school district security activities. However, a person who is not a commissioned law enforcement officer and who provides school security services under the direction of a school administrator may not possess a device listed in subsection (1)(f) of this section unless he or she has successfully completed training in the use of such devices that is equivalent to the training received by commissioned law enforcement officers;


You're not exactly correct. The exception clause in 3(b) specifically calls out that non-LE security cannot carry devices listed in (1)(f), which is a taser that shoots the prongs, unless you're trained in that use.

If you are hired for security at the school, you are allowed to carry. "School district security activities." A good non-specific phrase. The inclusion of "Any person engaged" would lead me to believe that if you're from a school where you provide security, you could carry at other schools. The "engaged" part may be a working hours only designation.

Related rabbit hole:
The best exemption, which I have never heard discussed, is later on, in (3)(g): "(g) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age who is in lawful possession of an unloaded firearm, secured in a vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school; or"

Anyone who knows English knows that there is a difference between "an" and "the" when writing.

So to outline it more clearly, Subsection 1 (unlawful to carry/possess on school premises) does not apply (you are exempt from this section) if "an unloaded firearm" is secured in your vehicle.

The exemption does not state that your EDC must be unloaded and locked in your vehicle. Just an unloaded firearm. Or an unloaded rifle, locked in your car, would exempt you from the law.

As far as the federal GFSZ goes, there's a clause in there that exempts you if you are "licensed." It's been a while since I read the section, but it's vague. Licensed by whom to do what? Licensed to drive? Licensed to practice medicine? Marry people? A state-issued Concealed Pistol License is a license. Plain reading of the law indicates I, as a CPL holder, can carry on school grounds, exempt from the GFSZ.


Guess the initial RCW's statement,
(1) It is unlawful for a person to knowingly carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools, or areas of facilities while being used for official meetings of a school district board of directors:
(a) Any firearm;

RCW is quite specific, 'unlawful' for a person...hummm nowhere does the referenced RCW give an exception, specially since there is no specificity from the OP they work under auspices of the RCW's 3b,(b) exception: Any person engaged in military, law enforcement, or school district security activities.

Finally, w/o further commentary the following is hoped to assist you...
The definite article (the) is used before a noun to indicate that the identity of the noun is known to the reader. The indefinite article (a, an) is used before a noun that is general or when its identity is not known.

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Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:03 pm
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oldkim wrote:
Massivedesign wrote:

Um... it holds lots of weight where required by law. Schools and bars are required to have very specific signs posted. Private property, not so much.


Like you mean the RCW - revised code of Washington? Which as you and other have pasted is all laid out. But someone can place a no guns sign at their business, home and from Washington RCW hold no legal footing just because they placed that sign.

In other states those same sign can or may hold legal status. But not in WA is what I was getting at.

So one must be familiar with what and where they can carry is my message. So do the research everyone. We all have very specific needs and circumstances.

Like some don’t have kids. Or maybe you just go to school events visiting? It’s quite Huge how other states do it but we have to know our own state.

I wrote some really long reply and mistakenly hit the refresh and deleted all the scenarios I had typed out and instances that reflect what is or is not school property. Bottom line: It's illegal. The district will have the ability to prosecute gun carrying on school property as they act as a barrier between students and public. Even if you're a parent or other legal guardian of a student(s), student protection is district priority and they have the ability to use the fullest extent of the law in their favor. Endangerment is what they'll use then more depending on situations if they arise. It's not a legal mess anyone should attempt to even try. If it's on school property, your gun rights still won't fly. Until they make changes to these rules which is highly unlikely, don't bring one unless you're an LE.


Sat Sep 17, 2022 3:07 am
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curiouscuz wrote:
PS: here is the cheet sheet Federal prospective, quote:
Generally, it is unlawful for any individual to knowingly possess a firearm within a school zone. A school zone is defined as being within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial, or private school. unquote

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/guide ... 1/download

So you are saying that I can not drive on a public road or walk on a public sidewalk past a school while carrying my weapon?? The road and sidewalk are closer then 1,000 feet from school grounds.


Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:30 am
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codfather wrote:
So you are saying that I can not drive on a public road or walk on a public sidewalk past a school while carrying my weapon?? The road and sidewalk are closer then 1,000 feet from school grounds.


According to the Feds. If you have a CPL then you're OK, or if it's unloaded and locked in a container. Completely unenforceable.


Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:51 pm
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mikeyb wrote:
codfather wrote:
So you are saying that I can not drive on a public road or walk on a public sidewalk past a school while carrying my weapon?? The road and sidewalk are closer then 1,000 feet from school grounds.


According to the Feds. If you have a CPL then you're OK, or if it's unloaded and locked in a container. Completely unenforceable.

Correct. Different intent. Unlikely there's anything to do about that or should be anyways.


Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:39 pm
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I’m reviving this old post because I’m now looking into becoming a security guard for the local private school. I do have a valid CPL and armed guard card. What I’m wondering is what is a good resource for information on what the school needs to do and what would I need to do to make it happen?

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Fri Jan 19, 2024 11:33 am
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Revised


Fri Jan 19, 2024 1:29 pm
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amc82 wrote:
I’m reviving this old post because I’m now looking into becoming a security guard for the local private school. I do have a valid CPL and armed guard card. What I’m wondering is what is a good resource for information on what the school needs to do and what would I need to do to make it happen?

You may want to reconsider accepting employment from a school that hasn't checked with their board or lawyer about this.


Fri Jan 19, 2024 7:00 pm
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They have not offered me any type of employment. I’m working with them gathering all the info I can so the school and I can work together to create the position properly.

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Sat Jan 20, 2024 11:20 am
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amc82 wrote:
They have not offered me any type of employment. I’m working with them gathering all the info I can so the school and I can work together to create the position properly.

I misunderstood, kudos to you for good work.


Sat Jan 20, 2024 8:27 pm
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amc82 wrote:
They have not offered me any type of employment. I’m working with them gathering all the info I can so the school and I can work together to create the position properly.


Perhaps check with a local college, especially if it’s private.

They’re following generally the same local and state laws, but, they’ll have an HR department you can contact, and might even point you to a qualifying curriculum they were trained under.

One challenge is that a lot of school systems seem to be moving towards paying police officers.

Good luck.


Sat Jan 20, 2024 9:51 pm
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i was an armed guard and training officer for 8 years working at various AMC theaters in the state. i've been out of the field for 5 years now but when i left the rules were ridiculous. you cannot get an armed card in this state without a "sponsor" employer who has offered you employment. you can't offer armed guard officers employment unless you have the proper licenses, insurance, etc which i'd be surprised any school would do when they can spend that money instead on actual LE and bypass much of the cost and liability.

best option is to get a flex officer spot with an armed company and then get a "dual license" to work at the school when needed. "flex officers" are on call type without a specific schedule. if you're on the west side of the mountains i can likely get you on a payroll still. i'm friends with the guy who took my job when i quit.

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Thu Jan 25, 2024 1:35 pm
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