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It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:19 pm
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Rare Breed Triggers' FRT-15 - now confiscations!
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 51917
Real Name: Steve
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SporkBoy wrote: I think maybe not OK in WA if the rate of fire hits a certain level so proper selection of buffer spring and carrier weight might get one under the line. I didn't check RCW but memory says 5 rounds per sec is considered mg.
Online vids show rof close to 0.2 -0.25 sec per round so very possible to tune that timing. Might be ammo sensitive. Please see our earlier discussion, linked above, which has the actual RCW. It's not as simple as rate of fire.
_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:36 pm |
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SporkBoy
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Location: Deckerville Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 Posts: 2944
Real Name: Rob
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MadPick wrote: SporkBoy wrote: I think maybe not OK in WA if the rate of fire hits a certain level so proper selection of buffer spring and carrier weight might get one under the line. I didn't check RCW but memory says 5 rounds per sec is considered mg.
Online vids show rof close to 0.2 -0.25 sec per round so very possible to tune that timing. Might be ammo sensitive. Please see our earlier discussion, linked above, which has the actual RCW. It's not as simple as rate of fire. Yeah, FRT-15 meets every requirement in RCW except possibly rate of fire. I started the other thread.
_________________ “The Democrats are playing you for a political chump and if you vote for them, not only are you a chump, you are a traitor to your race.”-Malcolm X
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Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:39 pm |
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 51917
Real Name: Steve
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SporkBoy wrote: Yeah, FRT-15 meets every requirement in RCW except possibly rate of fire. I started the other thread. Does it "[require] that the trigger be pressed for each shot"?
_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:42 pm |
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scrid2000
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Location: Pierce County Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2018 Posts: 1980
Real Name: Shane
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SporkBoy wrote: MadPick wrote: SporkBoy wrote: I think maybe not OK in WA if the rate of fire hits a certain level so proper selection of buffer spring and carrier weight might get one under the line. I didn't check RCW but memory says 5 rounds per sec is considered mg.
Online vids show rof close to 0.2 -0.25 sec per round so very possible to tune that timing. Might be ammo sensitive. Please see our earlier discussion, linked above, which has the actual RCW. It's not as simple as rate of fire. Yeah, FRT-15 meets every requirement in RCW except possibly rate of fire. I started the other thread. Rate of fire only matters if it doesn't require a separate trigger press for each shot.
_________________ Posts not legal advice.
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Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:05 pm |
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hkw84
Site Supporter
Location: Renton Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 Posts: 220
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Yeah it is hard to say...I believe it counts as manual press of trigger for each round. If any of you folks ever paintball...it feels the same as the Tippmann pneumatic response trigger. The reset force is heavier than the trigger let-off weight. Thus if you apply just enough constant weight to drop the hammer, you will let of the following shots as soon as the trigger is "forced" reset.
I agree that it technically does not violate the RCW machine gun def. But getting the jury/judge to agree with you is another story.
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Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:11 pm |
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SporkBoy
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Location: Deckerville Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 Posts: 2944
Real Name: Rob
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If you pull the trigger and hold it back it fires once.
If you quickly tap the trigger it fires once.
If you hold the trigger in a certain way it fires just like a bump stock or belt loop bump fire method - in which the trigger is actually pulled repeatedly but just with very small amounts of movement.
So, yeah, one pull one shot.
That's why I said it's about the rate of fire wording.
Also, long compound sentences with several "or" are terrible ways to write law.
_________________ “The Democrats are playing you for a political chump and if you vote for them, not only are you a chump, you are a traitor to your race.”-Malcolm X
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Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:56 am |
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SporkBoy
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Location: Deckerville Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 Posts: 2944
Real Name: Rob
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Machinegun = single trigger pull AND rate of fire 5 per sec and better (basically)
Forced reset means mechanically it's multiple pulls so not MG (but this seems a point of contention).
If the bump fire aspect means multiple trigger pulls actually considered a single pull then the rate of fire "adjustments" to get under the 5 rps bar then not a MG.
So two reasons why not a MG under RCW.
That's what I was getting at.
_________________ “The Democrats are playing you for a political chump and if you vote for them, not only are you a chump, you are a traitor to your race.”-Malcolm X
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Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:36 am |
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Gman
Site Supporter
Location: Unincorporated Rural Pierce County Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2020 Posts: 1804
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SporkBoy wrote: Machinegun = single trigger pull AND rate of fire 5 per sec and better (basically) ...and then there's Jerry Miculek. He can fire 8 shots accurately on 1 target in 1 second. 8 shots on 4 targets in 1.06 seconds. https://lockedback.com/jerry-miculek-is ... stock-ban/If it's a single shot per trigger pull, there should be no language related to rate of fire. Period.
_________________ Liberals never met a slippery slope they didn't grease.
I wish technology solved people issues. It seems to just reveal them.
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Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:52 pm |
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SporkBoy
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Location: Deckerville Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 Posts: 2944
Real Name: Rob
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For the paranoid but curious you could always to the goofy CA thing with a fixed mag for yet another reason to not be a MG under RCW.
_________________ “The Democrats are playing you for a political chump and if you vote for them, not only are you a chump, you are a traitor to your race.”-Malcolm X
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Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:02 pm |
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 51917
Real Name: Steve
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This was briefly mentioned in another thread, but I think it's relevant to add it here. The ATF recently declared that the FRT-15 is a machine gun, and Rare Breed is suing to have that ruling overturned: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/biden ... chine-gun/Fuck the ATF, those lying douchebags. Yes, I'm still angry about the bullshit bump stock ruling.
_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:01 am |
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Pvanderzee
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Location: Bow Joined: Tue Apr 2, 2013 Posts: 2688
Real Name: Phill
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I mean, fuck the AFT and Biden and all that... But is anybody really surprised that a device that lets an AR15 fire continuously via the shooter applying constant pressure to the trigger got classified as a machinegun? Bump stocks at least had the excuse that they didn't alter the trigger mechanism, and they still required some technique to use. They just moved the body of the gun, trigger and all, back to your finger. These things are another story entirely. Apply constant pressure with your trigger finger, and the gun will fire until you stop or it's empty. I'm not saying they should be illegal, because they shouldn't even need to exist, but if bumpstocks were playing with fire, these triggers were sitting in the center of Mt Etna. My only surprise is that it took as long as it did.
_________________Sinus211 wrote: Z66 and I still fuck on the regular. zombie66 wrote: Mikey is a Bossy Bottom.....
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Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:09 am |
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 51917
Real Name: Steve
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I'm not going to say that I'm surprised because I'm not . . . but once the ATF decides that it's okay to ignore the letter of the law (about one shot per trigger press) and make their own decisions, then the sky is the limit for them.
_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:46 am |
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Caveman Jim
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Location: In my Cave near the Cloquallum Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 Posts: 7758
Real Name: Jim Sr.
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Yeah, Fukk the a t f!!!
_________________"You are either with us...as Americans. Or, You are against us. There is no IN BETWEEN." ??? "We cannot negotiate with those who say, 'What's mine is mine, and what's yours is negotiable.'" JFK "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety” -Ben Franklin MadPick wrote: I don't think you beat your children enough.
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Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:38 pm |
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 51917
Real Name: Steve
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MadPick wrote: The ATF recently declared that the FRT-15 is a machine gun, and Rare Breed is suing to have that ruling overturned: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/biden ... chine-gun/Fuck the ATF, those lying douchebags. Yes, I'm still angry about the bullshit bump stock ruling. And, here is Rare Breed's response to the ATF . . . and it's worth a read. https://theinfidel.co/blogs/news/rare-b ... and-desist
_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Sat Aug 14, 2021 7:04 pm |
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 51917
Real Name: Steve
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Let me summarize it for you: "Fuck you, you irresponsible, lying pieces of political shit who are trying to intimidate us without facts, and for political reasons. Fuck off, it's not a machine gun and we all know it, and you can kiss our asses."
_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Sat Aug 14, 2021 7:07 pm |
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