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 Thinking of changing bear backup gun to 10mm 
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3584ELK wrote:
I love semi-auto pistols just as much as the next guy, but have you folks forgotten the story of the guide who was killed by a grizzly when his hunter could'nt get his Glock to go BANG?

A refresher: https://www.jhnewsandguide.com/news/environmental/case-closed-in-fatal-griz-attack/article_c17c97cb-c2f0-5476-aa08-17301f75343d.html

Sure, one can postulate all day long about how you skilled operators out there would never hunt without a chambered round, that you know how to get a Glock into action, etc. But one simple fact remains- had this handgun been a revolver, the hunter could have simply pointed and pulled the trigger to get that revolver into action. Sure, proximity of the bear to his victim might be a factor, but even a terrified human with a revolver can at least get close enough to put 6 rounds into a bear.

I will opt for 6 rounds of .44/ .45 Colt over 8, 10, or 15 rounds of 10mm. By the time a bear has absorbed 6 rounds of 240 or 250 grain bullets, you will have a very sick bear on your hands. My bear gun? An open sighted Ruger Super Redhawk .44 in a Galco chest holster.

Maybe, absent the empty Glock but armed with a 6 shot revolver, this young man may have survived to raise his 5 children.


I just completed reading this article and there are a few important details concerning the Glock 20. The 'Hunter' was not experienced with pistols and could not, in this bad case scenario, operate the Glock 20. The "Guide" who was the more experienced person on the mountain was not wearing the Glock 20 on his person when the attack occurred, but did have bear spray on his person. . Also, the 'Hunter', who did not have a sidearm of his own, choose not wear his bear spray his person because it was uncomfortable while riding the horse.
So, this is not a fair comparable situation to say that a Glock 20 failed. The 'Hunter', who was using a crossbow to hunt Elk, maybe did not have any firearm experience. So we cannot assume if he had a 'Revolver', the outcome would have been different. The 'Hunter' was not prepared, tried to help, was attacked by the bear, injured but ran for his life leaving the 'Guide' to be killed by the two grizzley bears.
I would debate a revolver over a pistol any day. Pistols of years ago are not as reliable and designed as they have been over the past 20+ years. Glock has an exceptional track record of performance and reliability. I do not entertain arguments of bullet weights, energy foot pounds, feet per second, etc. These are all very mute points if the bullet does not connect with the target. Ultimately, the target has to be hit then incapacitated.

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On days like this, I often wonder what Gary Gordon and Randy Shughart would do...


Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:22 pm
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Moot


Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:37 pm
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A Null wrote:
Here's a quick video that'll tell you what you need to carry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReG53OjZrPI





wheres the 500............Pussies

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Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:35 pm
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Arisaka wrote:
Can’t imagine anybody getting 20 shots off at a charging bear



I can't imagine getting that many off in a self defense shoot, but I still pack my 20 shot Witness

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Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:18 pm
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3584ELK wrote:
I love semi-auto pistols just as much as the next guy, but have you folks forgotten the story of the guide who was killed by a grizzly when his hunter could'nt get his Glock to go BANG?

A refresher: https://www.jhnewsandguide.com/news/environmental/case-closed-in-fatal-griz-attack/article_c17c97cb-c2f0-5476-aa08-17301f75343d.html

Sure, one can postulate all day long about how you skilled operators out there would never hunt without a chambered round, that you know how to get a Glock into action, etc. But one simple fact remains- had this handgun been a revolver, the hunter could have simply pointed and pulled the trigger to get that revolver into action. Sure, proximity of the bear to his victim might be a factor, but even a terrified human with a revolver can at least get close enough to put 6 rounds into a bear.

I will opt for 6 rounds of .44/ .45 Colt over 8, 10, or 15 rounds of 10mm. By the time a bear has absorbed 6 rounds of 240 or 250 grain bullets, you will have a very sick bear on your hands. My bear gun? An open sighted Ruger Super Redhawk .44 in a Galco chest holster.

Maybe, absent the empty Glock but armed with a 6 shot revolver, this young man may have survived to raise his 5 children.


You ARE aware that revolvers can break and lock up? I once had a .357 break the cylinder stop pin so badly that I had to take it to a smith just to unload it and send it for repair. Also grit can stop them cold

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Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:20 pm
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Border Dave wrote:
Capn Blood wrote:

Panzer Arms BP-12 is a far better value. I love mine so much I'm buying another. Taylor Freelance makes +3 baseplates so you can have 8 or 13 rd mags. Charging handle can be swapped to the left side. I just wish it had an internal choke

https://grabagun.com/panzer-arms-bp12-1 ... ly%20Email


Like the MKA 1923?

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Better. I have an MKA 1919 and the BP-12 and the BP is a better gun

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Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:22 pm
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3584ELK wrote:
dan360 wrote:
Revolvers fail, too.

This thread is the best backup QB armchair QB discussion ever.



Yes, revolvers fail, but in this instance it was the human who failed due to complexity of the weapon he tried to use.



Glocks are "complex"? :popcorn:

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Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:24 pm
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Capn Blood wrote:
3584ELK wrote:
dan360 wrote:
Revolvers fail, too.

This thread is the best backup QB armchair QB discussion ever.



Yes, revolvers fail, but in this instance it was the human who failed due to complexity of the weapon he tried to use.



Glocks are "complex"? :popcorn:
I LOL'd at that also, you should not carry anything you are not fluent using. Also saying that keep up on the maintenance, and know whether you have a round chambered or not. All of this falls on the individual carrying, not rocket science.


Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:17 pm
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PORTER wrote:
Capn Blood wrote:
3584ELK wrote:
dan360 wrote:
Revolvers fail, too.

This thread is the best backup QB armchair QB discussion ever.



Yes, revolvers fail, but in this instance it was the human who failed due to complexity of the weapon he tried to use.



Glocks are "complex"? :popcorn:
I LOL'd at that also, you should not carry anything you are not fluent using. Also saying that keep up on the maintenance, and know whether you have a round chambered or not. All of this falls on the individual carrying, not rocket science.


Well in this particular instance the “guide” was armed with the Glock 20. Why a “guide” on a grizzly hunt with a crossbow only had a 10mm handgun I don’t know but unless there is some law that a “guide” can only carry a handgun for protection during a crossbow hunt, who knows.

At any rate the “guide” was rasslin’ the bar and the “hunter” tried to use the handgun, failed, ejected the magazine, and ran away after the “guide” got the Glock back sans magazine.

Darwin, really.

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Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:09 pm
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dan360 wrote:
PORTER wrote:
Capn Blood wrote:
3584ELK wrote:
dan360 wrote:
Revolvers fail, too.

This thread is the best backup QB armchair QB discussion ever.



Yes, revolvers fail, but in this instance it was the human who failed due to complexity of the weapon he tried to use.



Glocks are "complex"? :popcorn:
I LOL'd at that also, you should not carry anything you are not fluent using. Also saying that keep up on the maintenance, and know whether you have a round chambered or not. All of this falls on the individual carrying, not rocket science.


Well in this particular instance the “guide” was armed with the Glock 20. Why a “guide” on a grizzly hunt with a crossbow only had a 10mm handgun I don’t know but unless there is some law that a “guide” can only carry a handgun for protection during a crossbow hunt, who knows.

At any rate the “guide” was rasslin’ the bar and the “hunter” tried to use the handgun, failed, ejected the magazine, and ran away after the “guide” got the Glock back sans magazine.

Darwin, really.
Yea, lots of WTF going on.


Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:09 am
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Much WTF indeed.

This jumped out at me:
"...while field dressing the elk Uptain removed his shirt and left it and his black nylon shoulder strap holding a Glock 10-millimeter handgun 5 or 10 yards uphill of the carcass. "

So, conventional wisdom is you carry a pistol to fight your way back to the rifle you stupidly left behind. If you stupidly leave your pistol behind, with what do you fight your way back to it?

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Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:11 pm
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dan360 wrote:
Revolvers fail, too.

This thread is the best backup QB armchair QB discussion ever.


But they fail less often and are easier to use.


Ill take a BIG revolver over a medium semi any day in the woods.

If you need more capacity then thats a good reason to buy a COUPLE nice BIG revolvers. :wink05:


Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:43 pm
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