WaGuns.org :: View topic - Gun shop Wait Times

joao01 wrote:

Sporting Systems in Vancouver posted yesterday they've got training certificates.

Pablo wrote:

joao01 wrote:

Sporting Systems in Vancouver posted yesterday they've got training certificates.

How much? I just need one.

hkcavalier wrote:

It makes me wonder if the whole point of the "training certificate" is just to open the door to lawsuits against the FFLs and/or the trainers.

WaJim wrote:

More laws for the law abiding isn't going to fix anything.

We all know that.

But I've in the past shot at a few public shooting areas.....

A good portion of those people could use some safe-gun handling instruction.

dreadi wrote:

WaJim wrote:

How about a buttstock to the face for muzzle sweeping the line?

hkcavalier wrote:

It makes me wonder if the whole point of the "training certificate" is just to open the door to lawsuits against the FFLs and/or the trainers.

quantsuff wrote:

hkcavalier wrote:

It makes me wonder if the whole point of the "training certificate" is just to open the door to lawsuits against the FFLs and/or the trainers.

It's true that anyone can sue anyone, but help me understand who/what scenario someone would *win* a suit?

hkcavalier wrote:

quantsuff wrote:

hkcavalier wrote:

It makes me wonder if the whole point of the "training certificate" is just to open the door to lawsuits against the FFLs and/or the trainers.

It's true that anyone can sue anyone, but help me understand who/what scenario someone would *win* a suit?

1. Buyer gets certificate from Trainer
2. Buyer purchases gun
3. Buyer uses gun unlawfully
4. Aggrieved Party / Prosecutor investigates
5. Trainer is sued due to some perceived lack in "x" area

While a trainer can probably require a hold harmless agreement from the trained, they certainly cannot do so from some 3rd party. Get ready to test that liability insurance.

/insurance agent

hkcavalier wrote:

quantsuff wrote:

hkcavalier wrote:

It makes me wonder if the whole point of the "training certificate" is just to open the door to lawsuits against the FFLs and/or the trainers.

It's true that anyone can sue anyone, but help me understand who/what scenario someone would *win* a suit?

3584ELK wrote:

Trivia Q: how many folks know what Arisaka's sig pic shows?

3584ELK wrote:

Trivia Q: how many folks know what Arisaka's sig pic shows?

3584ELK wrote:

Already I had a young man (20 years of age) call and ask if we could "work something out due to this new law." He had been to a gun shop in Port Orchard and was told he could not receive a pump shotgun via private party transfer. I invited him to come by for a transfer, but also to do his own research. He called me back and advised me that I was wrong. He had called 5 or 6 other dealers and they all informed him that it was illegal for him to have a pump shotgun. Okay, I told him he should not do anything he believed to be illegal. The next day, he informed me by text that the Port Orchard dealer had changed his mind. SIGH

3584ELK wrote:

BTW, has anyone found any language regarding restrictions on lower receivers or frames?

Author:	Nitro_Guns [ Thu May 16, 2019 5:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Gun shop Wait Times
joao01 wrote: Sporting Systems in Vancouver posted yesterday they've got training certificates. Do they meet any of these requirements? This is where I see a potential issue. How is the FFL to know all of this? "The training must be sponsored by a federal, state, county, or municipal law enforcement agency, a college or university, a nationally recognized organization that customarily offers firearms training, or a firearms training school with instructors certified by a nationally recognized organization that customarily offers firearms training.

Author:	joao01 [ Thu May 16, 2019 6:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Gun shop Wait Times
Pablo wrote: joao01 wrote: Sporting Systems in Vancouver posted yesterday they've got training certificates. How much? I just need one. https://sporting-systems.com/contact/

Author:	hkcavalier [ Thu May 16, 2019 8:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Gun shop Wait Times
It makes me wonder if the whole point of the "training certificate" is just to open the door to lawsuits against the FFLs and/or the trainers.

Author:	Pablo [ Thu May 16, 2019 8:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Gun shop Wait Times
hkcavalier wrote: It makes me wonder if the whole point of the "training certificate" is just to open the door to lawsuits against the FFLs and/or the trainers. It's that. It's an impairment. In every sense of the word. We need CNN and the Democrats to tell us we have a state constitutional crisis.

Author:	WaJim [ Thu May 16, 2019 8:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Gun shop Wait Times
More laws for the law abiding isn't going to fix anything. We all know that. But I've in the past shot at a few public shooting areas..... A good portion of those people could use some safe-gun handling instruction.

WaGuns.org https://waguns.org/

Gun shop Wait Times https://waguns.org/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=100754	Page 5 of 9

Author:	dreadi [ Thu May 16, 2019 9:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Gun shop Wait Times
WaJim wrote: More laws for the law abiding isn't going to fix anything. We all know that. But I've in the past shot at a few public shooting areas..... A good portion of those people could use some safe-gun handling instruction. How about a buttstock to the face for muzzle sweeping the line?

Author:	Arisaka [ Thu May 16, 2019 9:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Gun shop Wait Times
dreadi wrote: WaJim wrote: More laws for the law abiding isn't going to fix anything. We all know that. But I've in the past shot at a few public shooting areas..... A good portion of those people could use some safe-gun handling instruction. How about a buttstock to the face for muzzle sweeping the line?

Author:	quantsuff [ Thu May 16, 2019 9:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Gun shop Wait Times
hkcavalier wrote: It makes me wonder if the whole point of the "training certificate" is just to open the door to lawsuits against the FFLs and/or the trainers. It's true that anyone can sue anyone, but help me understand who/what scenario someone would win a suit?

Author:	hkcavalier [ Thu May 16, 2019 10:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Gun shop Wait Times
quantsuff wrote: hkcavalier wrote: It makes me wonder if the whole point of the "training certificate" is just to open the door to lawsuits against the FFLs and/or the trainers. It's true that anyone can sue anyone, but help me understand who/what scenario someone would win a suit? 1. Buyer gets certificate from Trainer 2. Buyer purchases gun 3. Buyer uses gun unlawfully 4. Aggrieved Party / Prosecutor investigates 5. Trainer is sued due to some perceived lack in "x" area While a trainer can probably require a hold harmless agreement from the trained, they certainly cannot do so from some 3rd party. Get ready to test that liability insurance. /insurance agent

Author:	Old Growth [ Thu May 16, 2019 11:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Gun shop Wait Times
hkcavalier wrote: quantsuff wrote: hkcavalier wrote: It makes me wonder if the whole point of the "training certificate" is just to open the door to lawsuits against the FFLs and/or the trainers. It's true that anyone can sue anyone, but help me understand who/what scenario someone would win a suit? 1. Buyer gets certificate from Trainer 2. Buyer purchases gun 3. Buyer uses gun unlawfully 4. Aggrieved Party / Prosecutor investigates 5. Trainer is sued due to some perceived lack in "x" area While a trainer can probably require a hold harmless agreement from the trained, they certainly cannot do so from some 3rd party. Get ready to test that liability insurance. /insurance agent Has a hunters ED instructor ever been sued over a hunting accident?

Author:	ViniVidivici [ Thu May 16, 2019 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Gun shop Wait Times
So in counties where local LEO have stated they won't enforce 1639, can gun stores in those counties get by with ignoring all the 1639 bullshit?

Author:	quantsuff [ Thu May 16, 2019 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Gun shop Wait Times
hkcavalier wrote: quantsuff wrote: hkcavalier wrote: It makes me wonder if the whole point of the "training certificate" is just to open the door to lawsuits against the FFLs and/or the trainers. It's true that anyone can sue anyone, but help me understand who/what scenario someone would win a suit? 1. Buyer gets certificate from Trainer 2. Buyer purchases gun 3. Buyer uses gun unlawfully 4. Aggrieved Party / Prosecutor investigates 5. Trainer is sued due to some perceived lack in "x" area While a trainer can probably require a hold harmless agreement from the trained, they certainly cannot do so from some 3rd party. Get ready to test that liability insurance. /insurance agent Thanks for the follow up/ clarification. My assessment is this scenario is extremely improbable, likely very difficult for the plaintiff to investigate/win, but potentially significantly damaging if it occurs. For me, I'll approach similarly to other low-probability-but-high-mortality events.

Author:	3584ELK [ Thu May 16, 2019 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Gun shop Wait Times
I am late to the party (as usual) on this discussion, but it seems to me that a thread titled Gun Shop Wait Times is not the best way to get FFL's to chime in as to their policies re: transfers come July 1. The thread title seems to survey WaGuns for the time they may have spent waiting at the counter for service. No digs at Arisaka, just my opinion. Trivia Q: how many folks know what Arisaka's sig pic shows? How about we start a thread where FFL's are solicited for their policies and pricing changes (if any) come July 1? As for me, I have stated elsewhere on this site that I might not accept transfers between July 1 and August 1. That is not to punish the customer, but it is in anticipation of how EFFED UP this mess will be. Trust the state Firearms Unit to make things difficult, clunky, and contradictory. The so called FFL training on their site is dated 2012. Real efficient, Mr. Tanaka. Already I had a young man (20 years of age) call and ask if we could "work something out due to this new law." He had been to a gun shop in Port Orchard and was told he could not receive a pump shotgun via private party transfer. I invited him to come by for a transfer, but also to do his own research. He called me back and advised me that I was wrong. He had called 5 or 6 other dealers and they all informed him that it was illegal for him to have a pump shotgun. Okay, I told him he should not do anything he believed to be illegal. The next day, he informed me by text that the Port Orchard dealer had changed his mind. SIGH There is a lot of confusion surrounding this new burden the voters have placed on us. BTW, has anyone found any language regarding restrictions on lower receivers or frames?

Author:	hkcavalier [ Thu May 16, 2019 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Gun shop Wait Times
3584ELK wrote: Trivia Q: how many folks know what Arisaka's sig pic shows? The Japanese chrysanthemum stamp, denoting ownership by the Emperor aka the Imperial Seal of Japan.

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Author:	MadPick [ Thu May 16, 2019 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Gun shop Wait Times
3584ELK wrote: Trivia Q: how many folks know what Arisaka's sig pic shows? I know, but I'll stay mum for now so others can guess. 3584ELK wrote: Already I had a young man (20 years of age) call and ask if we could "work something out due to this new law." He had been to a gun shop in Port Orchard and was told he could not receive a pump shotgun via private party transfer. I invited him to come by for a transfer, but also to do his own research. He called me back and advised me that I was wrong. He had called 5 or 6 other dealers and they all informed him that it was illegal for him to have a pump shotgun. Okay, I told him he should not do anything he believed to be illegal. The next day, he informed me by text that the Port Orchard dealer had changed his mind. SIGH That is SO infuriating . . . there is so much misinformation out there. Somebody says something that's flat-out wrong on Facebook (or WaGuns!), other people take it at face value and re-post it somewhere else . . . it's just maddening.[/quote] 3584ELK wrote: BTW, has anyone found any language regarding restrictions on lower receivers or frames? Not as far as age of ownership . . . but they will need to wait for LE to do the background check, just like for handguns, come July 1st. So, 3584ELK . . . do you have a policy yet for when you'll release a gun to the buyer if you don't hear back from LE?