So yes ive been looking into our new brace issues and one of the things that has come up is "other". Not exactly the same thing as a pistol with a brace, but from what ive seen its a close second....

So my understanding is this: minimum 26 OAL

Vertical foregrip

can still utilize the brace

so help me out if my deciphering skillz are lacking here, am i missing anything??

In the eyes of the ATF the brace is a stock, so overall length and barrel length matters.

And as of the 31st you should have just pulled the brace off and have it in compliance till this shit gets litigated with just the multi position buffer tube in place and a tennis ball with a hole in it in your pocket. If you do not file your form one then you have compliance issues with Washingtons SBR rules too.

“Section C
Question 24. Category of Firearm(s): “Other” refers to frames, receivers, and other firearms that are neither handguns nor long guns (rifles or shotguns), such as firearms having a pistol grip that expel a shotgun shell, or National Firearms Act (NFA) firearms, including silencers. If a frame or receiver can only be made into a long gun (rifle or shotgun), it is still a frame or receiver, not a handgun or long gun. All frames and receivers are “firearms” by definition, and subject to the same GCA limitations. See 18 U.S.C § 921(a)(3)(B). 18 U.S.C. § 922(b)(1) makes it unlawful for a licensee to sell any firearm other than a shotgun or rifle to any person under the age of 21. Since a frame or receiver for a firearm, to include one that can only be made into a long gun, is a “firearm other than a shotgun or rifle,” it cannot be trans- ferred to anyone under the age of 21, nor can these firearms be transferred to anyone who is not a resident of the State where the transfer is to take place. Also, note that multiple sales forms are not required for frames or receivers of any firearms, or pistol grip shotguns, since they are not “pistols or revolvers” under 18 U.S.C.§ 923(g)(3)(A).”

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-firearms-transaction-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download


BLACK HAMMER ARMS
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Well thats not much help...your english iterpretation if you would please cause its still muddy over here

Arent lowers "others" when purchased by themselves ?? Not sure if that hurts or helps with my question

Ii it was transferred as an "other" then it's just a stripped lower. If you built it as a Pistol? That's what it is. If it has a brace on it, remove it and wait for the Lawsuits.
It can be a Rifle lower after being a Pistol, and then even go back to being a Pistol. If it was transferred as a Rifle? It can't be a Pistol after that.

Clear as mud, right? That's what they want.

Pistol to rifle? Good.

Back to pistol? Good.

Rifle to Pistol? No can do.

Yes.

You have an Other that I worked on years ago.


BLACK HAMMER ARMS
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You're mostly correct, but the edit I made is technically correct (all in the word choice!). It's the original configuration that they're concerned about, not necessarily how it was transferred. I could buy a virgin stripped frame/receiver, build it into a pistol, then convert it into a rifle, and sell you that rifle via a private party transfer. Technically, you could convert that rifle you bought from me back into a pistol, because that's how I originally configured/built from a virgin frame/receiver - even though we transferred it as a rilfe. Should you/would you? How would you know? That is a bit of a conundrum.


What you're talking about is often referred to as a Title I firearm, because it's definitely a firearm, and it's definitely not Title II (NFA), but it doesn't technically fit into any of the more defined categories (frame/receiver, pistol, rifle, shotgun, etc.).

For example, consider a 5.56 AR-15 with a pistol stabilizing brace, 11.5" barrel, and vertical forward grip. If it doesn't have a shoulder stock (think pistol stabilizing brace), it's not intended to be fired from the shoulder, so it's not a rifle. If it doesn't have a smooth bore (think rifled barrel), it's not a shotgun. If it is not designed to be fired by the use of a single hand (think pistol grip + vertical forward grip), it's not a pistol. If it is over 26" in overall length, it's not an AOW (Title II / NFA). So, it's definitely still a "firearm", but since it's not covered by the NFA, it's only covered by the GCA, which makes it a Title I firearm. It should be marked as "other" on ATF Form 4473 for that reason. An AR-15 lower receiver (or a Glock frame) - whether stripped or complete, regardless of what type of device is affixed to the buffer tube - is also an "other" and would be indicated as such.

Now, just because you can prove that your braced Title I firearm is not a pistol, that still does not guarantee that it isn't subject to this new set of rules & regulations. You'd have to evaluate the firearm and its characteristics against the criteria laid out in the rule in order to determine if ATF would still consider your firearm an unregistered SBR in its present configuration (with the brace). At least that's my understanding - who the hell knows.

It sounds like you're confusing "other", as in how a receiver is listed on a 4473 form when transferred from an FFL, with "AOW" or Any Other Weapon which is an NFA category for firearms that don't fit the definition of rifle, shotgun, or pistol.

Or maybe you're thinking of the generic "firearm" (not "other") category for things like the short 14" barreled shotguns and other things that are not NFA but don't fit the standard definitions?

Is that correct? It's hard to decipher what you're actually asking.

An "other" receiver isn't remotely the same thing as a pistol with a brace; it's a receiver that does not have all of the components assembled to make it a functioning firearm. It's not a complete gun.

An AOW is a complete gun that is neither a rifle or a pistol. It does still require NFA paperwork and the $200 making tax, but only $5 for transfers after that.

So looking into this some more it may be a past issue or just a New Jersey only concern but i wondered / hoped it may or may not apply to our current dilemma


https://techopsinternational.com/troy-a4-other-firearm/

Perhaps your question is, “If my braced firearms has an overall length of at least 26.5” and the barrel is over 10.5”, and I have a vfg, is it not a pistol?”.


BLACK HAMMER ARMS
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oooh oooh ooooh, well i dont have any of them bracy thingies but isnt this latest ruling limited to "rifles" ???? and the thing you described (subject of this discussion) is a "pistol" right ??

Actually it’s an Other.


BLACK HAMMER ARMS
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On the topic of SBR... RCW 9.41.010 states:
(32) "Short-barreled rifle" means a rifle having one or more barrels less than ((sixteen))16 inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle by any means of modification if such modified weapon has an overall length of less than ((twenty-six))26 inches.

Under that, if you build a standard AR rifle, then decide you want to make an AR pistol, but don't feel the need to purchase a whole new lower, just buy the desired upper, would that not be a weapon made from a rifle by any means of modification? But what if that rifle still is over 26"?

Could this law be understood that an SBR has <16" barrel and if made from an existing rifle, must be <26" long?

Therefore, a rifle with a <16" barrel, and if made from an existing rifle with length >26" would not be a SBR?

It would still be a weapon made from a rifle under federal law, and thus a SBR. State law and federal law don't always agree, so you have to look at both.