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 Another question about LPVO’s 
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I tried searching for answers concerning problems with red dot sights and astigmatism but came up dry.
I am ready to bite the bullet on a 1-6x24 scope (or equivalent) for my distance AR (100-200 yrds minimum). I’ve had 3x9 and 4x12 scopes for hunting but never had any on my AR’s except red dots, will a 1-6 power be enough for this range since the red dots are out of the picture? I’ve never used the BDC3 reticle so don’t know what to expect.
This is what I’m eyeing really close. https://gun.deals/product/vortex-strike ... set-29999-
Any advice appreciated. :wink05:

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Last edited by Caveman Jim on Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:53 pm
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All scopes Nazi and Soviet snipers had on their rifles during WWII were just 4x, fixed.
And, yes - Steve covered it all perfectly below!
:thumbsup2:
On my SHTF 6920 I’ve 1-6x.

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Last edited by surevaliance on Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:02 pm, edited 6 times in total.



Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:58 pm
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Caveman Jim wrote:
will a 1-6 power be enough for this range


Enough . . . for what? To shoot a 0.5 MOA group? To hit an enemy combatant who's running?

I think it all depends on what your expectations are, and how you plan to use it.

For my ARs, except for my prairie dog AR, I'm perfect happy with red dots, so yes magnification-wise a 1-6x would be just fine for me. In fact, I have a few LVPOs, but I've gone back to red dots because I don't like the weight of the LPVOs.

For my prairie dog AR I have a 6-24x scope.

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Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:58 pm
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Thanks for the quick reply’s. I’m actually wanting to be able to shoot steel plates from 1 to 200 yards for practice/training in case the SHTF. As I explained earlier I can’t use red dots anymore because of my astigmatism I’m seeing five or six dots now so I have to guess which one to put the bead on…

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Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:04 pm
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Caveman Jim wrote:
Thanks for the quick reply’s. I’m actually wanting to be able to shoot steel plates from 1 to 200 yards for practice/training in case the SHTF. As I explained earlier I can’t use red dots anymore because of my astigmatism I’m seeing five or six dots now so I have to guess which one to put the bead on…


Just put the target in the middle of all of those dots :bigsmile:

Get an ACOG and be done. No fiddle-faddling with a magnification ring.

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Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:07 pm
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Accumulated wisdom from long range target shooters (snipers & competitors both) distills down to a simple formula:
1x per hundred yards.

I have a 1-4.5x and have had no problems shooting accurately out to 500 yards with 5.56 on an AR, benched or prone.

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Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:56 pm
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Not to be 'that guy' (but I'll be that guy): It's a LPVO... Low Power Variable Optic

I've had a strike eagle for a while and really like it. Mine is the older 1-4x version and it suits me fine, but I haven't really shot over 100 yards with it. The viper was the other scope I was looking at but liked the reticle on the strike eagle better

The BDC reticle is easy to understand. The cross bars correlate to an 18" wide object at an approximate range (when on the highest magnification setting) regardless of rifle . Over time you can develop a dope card for your specific rifle configuration and load so those cross bars also correlate to bullet drop at a certain distance. Most silhouette targets are 18" wide, about the width of an average guy's shoulders. That also the width I welded my steel plate stands at, just so I can practice with ranging

Going the LPVO route you've got a much smaller eye box than a red dot. The more you shoot it the easier it will be to get your eyeball into that box quickly

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Last edited by RocketScott on Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:31 pm
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Army's DMR's of 2020 use a Sig 1-6x scope with claims to give capability from 300-600 meters; right in line with Jay's advice I think.

https://looserounds.com/2020/06/21/army ... man-rifle/

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Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:33 pm
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Get it. You'll love it.

The extra weight is worth the gain. You're a soldier, you won't mind.

The ability to PID targets at distance is a game changer. Dialing it down and using it close-in is awesome (yes, though training you'll adjust to the eye box/eye relief issue, trust me).

I agree with the 1x per 100 yards, generally. But most of us say fuck it and dial all the way up to 6x for 200 yards and beyond.

Hell, when I shoot the MNQ drill, I cheat and dial up to 2x, even though it's only 50 yards. It does in fact help me get better hits!

So, using an LPVO, at farther ranges, like 300 yards, makes it easier to get the hits.

Remember with irons, hitting the 300 yard target is "just hit it, or miss".....? Magnification gets you to "where do I want to hit it"....and "hit or miss" becomes the 600 yard range.....if that makes sense.

Having magnification for big open spaces.....AND 1x for in and around structures, "close-in", is the best of both worlds. The weight is just something you deal with......ain't nothing.

It'd be noticeable on a 20" with full stock, surely, but a 14.5-18", with carbine stock, and light free float rail up front....not a problem.

LPVO is a great evolution for a fighting rifle...really let's you bring home classic American marksmanship as a tool in the toolbox.

I see the Strike Eagle has capped turrets and a good reticle, just learn your holds with your chosen loads. It's fast and efficient.

And yes, 1-6x would be plenty for out to 600. Shooting at 300 dialed up to 6x is a piece of cake.

ETA: for your reading enjoyment, a ridiculous amount of info on all things LPVO:

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.ph ... O-on-an-AR

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Last edited by ViniVidivici on Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:42 pm
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Another thing, buy the best scope you can't afford.
In other words, take your budget and add 50% (at the minimum).

You'll see a big jump going up one or two quality levels, i.e. Strike Eagle to Viper.
A scope, you can keep and use on multiple rifles, so it makes sense to not scrimp.

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Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:21 pm
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jukk0u wrote:
Caveman Jim wrote:
Thanks for the quick reply’s. I’m actually wanting to be able to shoot steel plates from 1 to 200 yards for practice/training in case the SHTF. As I explained earlier I can’t use red dots anymore because of my astigmatism I’m seeing five or six dots now so I have to guess which one to put the bead on…


Just put the target in the middle of all of those dots :bigsmile:

Get an ACOG and be done. No fiddle-faddling with a magnification ring.


Can't afford one of those fancy acogs... :popcorn:

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"We cannot negotiate with those who say, 'What's mine is mine, and what's yours is negotiable.'" JFK

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”

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MadPick wrote:
I don't think you beat your children enough. :ROFLMAO:


Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:38 pm
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Low
Power
Variable
Optic

LPVO

Now that we have my OCD out of the way, let’s move on. LPVO is a great choice for stretching a little distance out of a rifle when you’re fighting the starburst effect of astigmatism. So what are your options?

-1x prismatic optics (excellent choice to fight astigmatism if you don’t mind being stuck at 1x)

-LPVO cheap optics (1-4x optics in the $100-$200 range that don’t offer a true 1x). Pros: cheap. Cons: no true 1x precludes the possibility of using buis as they will be blurry if the scope isn’t capable of true 1x

-LPVO expensive optics (1-8x optics in the $300-$1800 range that offer excellent clarity and true 1x) Pros: clarity, true 1x allows use of buis through the optic. Cons:expensive.

I’ve been through all this and have a little mix of all of the above on numerous rifles. Personally I love red dots, but that’s not a good option for astigmatism. My second choice would either be a cheap LPVO on a qd mount so it can be removed to use the buis, or preferably an expensive LPVO that allows the use of irons through the scope when dialed down to 1x.

It comes down to purpose IMO. What is your rifle for? Is it a DMR build? A CQB build? A target build?

Choose your optics to suit the rifle.

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Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:47 pm
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RocketScott wrote:
Not to be 'that guy' (but I'll be that guy): It's a LPVO... Low Power Variable Optic

I've had a strike eagle for a while and really like it. Mine is the older 1-4x version and it suits me fine, but I haven't really shot over 100 yards with it. The viper was the other scope I was looking at but liked the reticle on the strike eagle better

The BDC reticle is easy to understand. The cross bars correlate to an 18" wide object at an approximate range (when on the highest magnification setting) regardless of rifle . Over time you can develop a dope card for your specific rifle configuration and load so those cross bars also correlate to bullet drop at a certain distance. Most silhouette targets are 18" wide, about the width of an average guy's shoulders. That also the width I welded my steel plate stands at, just so I can practice with ranging

Going the LPVO route you've got a much smaller eye box than a red dot. The more you shoot it the easier it will be to get your eyeball into that box quickly


Dyslexia strikes again, thanks for pointing that out.
Thanks for the explanations, makes sense. I've seen the reticle in articles and ads but have not eyeballed one in person yet. I think I'll hold off until I do.

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"You are either with us...as Americans. Or, You are against us. There is no IN BETWEEN." ???

"We cannot negotiate with those who say, 'What's mine is mine, and what's yours is negotiable.'" JFK

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”

-Ben Franklin

MadPick wrote:
I don't think you beat your children enough. :ROFLMAO:


Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:49 pm
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ViniVidivici wrote:
Get it. You'll love it.

The extra weight is worth the gain. You're a soldier, you won't mind.

The ability to PID targets at distance is a game changer. Dialing it down and using it close-in is awesome (yes, though training you'll adjust to the eye box/eye relief issue, trust me).

I agree with the 1x per 100 yards, generally. But most of us say fuck it and dial all the way up to 6x for 200 yards and beyond.

Hell, when I shoot the MNQ drill, I cheat and dial up to 2x, even though it's only 50 yards. It does in fact help me get better hits!

So, using an LPVO, at farther ranges, like 300 yards, makes it easier to get the hits.

Remember with irons, hitting the 300 yard target is "just hit it, or miss".....? Magnification gets you to "where do I want to hit it"....and "hit or miss" becomes the 600 yard range.....if that makes sense.

Having magnification for big open spaces.....AND 1x for in and around structures, "close-in", is the best of both worlds. The weight is just something you deal with......ain't nothing.

It'd be noticeable on a 20" with full stock, surely, but a 14.5-18", with carbine stock, and light free float rail up front....not a problem.

LPVO is a great evolution for a fighting rifle...really let's you bring home classic American marksmanship as a tool in the toolbox.

I see the Strike Eagle has capped turrets and a good reticle, just learn your holds with your chosen loads. It's fast and efficient.

And yes, 1-6x would be plenty for out to 600. Shooting at 300 dialed up to 6x is a piece of cake.

ETA: for your reading enjoyment, a ridiculous amount of info on all things LPVO:

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.ph ... O-on-an-AR


This makes even more sense. I've got tired eyes with lots of floaters and is a challenge with dot scopes so this is the next level for me.
I used to be able to ring the 5" steel plate from 100 yards at Evergreens with my StrikeFire 30/30 but not anymore.
I'm definitely looking forward to getting a LPVO, meaning I will be able shoot moar better...

Thanks everyone for your comments and advice.

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"You are either with us...as Americans. Or, You are against us. There is no IN BETWEEN." ???

"We cannot negotiate with those who say, 'What's mine is mine, and what's yours is negotiable.'" JFK

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”

-Ben Franklin

MadPick wrote:
I don't think you beat your children enough. :ROFLMAO:


Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:59 pm
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Another question, are there any reputable quick disconnect mounts you would recommend?

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"We cannot negotiate with those who say, 'What's mine is mine, and what's yours is negotiable.'" JFK

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”

-Ben Franklin

MadPick wrote:
I don't think you beat your children enough. :ROFLMAO:


Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:21 pm
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