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 Are we still able to own and use crank handles? 
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A question that I can't find the answer to online:

Are we still able to own and use crank handles for semi-auto rifles? I was thinking about building a cool toy, but It would require the use of a crank handle style trigger actuator. It would still be 1 round per trigger pull, but I was looking at building an aluminum housing to house two AR's, horizontally opposed. :bigsmile:

Would this be legal?


Mon May 03, 2021 6:19 pm
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Barfly wrote:
A question that I can't find the answer to online:

Are we still able to own and use crank handles for semi-auto rifles? I was thinking about building a cool toy, but It would require the use of a crank handle style trigger actuator. It would still be 1 round per trigger pull, but I was looking at building an aluminum housing to house two AR's, horizontally opposed. :bigsmile:

Would this be legal?

That's an interesting question. The firearms still have triggers, and those triggers still require the state-mandated trigger press, but they're actually being actuated by you pressing the crank.
If a jury found that the crank was the trigger, it would be a machinegun (because you're then getting two rounds per press). If the jury found that the triggers themselves were the trigger, it would be an incredibly stupid setup with two ARs pointing opposite directions.
I am going to double-emphasize that I am not giving you legal advice, go talk to an attorney if you want to build this monstrosity.

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Mon May 03, 2021 6:54 pm
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The reason the binary trigger manufacturers won't sell their triggers to Washington residents is because the state defines a machinegun as being able to fire 5 or more rounds per second, so, 300 rounds per minute, among the other usual definitions

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Mon May 03, 2021 7:55 pm
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scrid2000 wrote:
Barfly wrote:
A question that I can't find the answer to online:

Are we still able to own and use crank handles for semi-auto rifles? I was thinking about building a cool toy, but It would require the use of a crank handle style trigger actuator. It would still be 1 round per trigger pull, but I was looking at building an aluminum housing to house two AR's, horizontally opposed. :bigsmile:

Would this be legal?

That's an interesting question. The firearms still have triggers, and those triggers still require the state-mandated trigger press, but they're actually being actuated by you pressing the crank.
If a jury found that the crank was the trigger, it would be a machinegun (because you're then getting two rounds per press). If the jury found that the triggers themselves were the trigger, it would be an incredibly stupid setup with two ARs pointing opposite directions.
I am going to double-emphasize that I am not giving you legal advice, go talk to an attorney if you want to build this monstrosity.


haha, both would be pointed the same direction. Think of opposed meaning top rail to top rail, magwells pointing opposite directions...with D60s in them. :thumbsup2:


Mon May 03, 2021 8:20 pm
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I don’t see why you couldn’t use a crank handle. Gatling guns are legal in WA and are considered an “other” so it’s a same day release with a NICS check.

They have had a little 9mm Tippman Gatling gun for sale at Securite for the low price of $5000. I also rented the one they have there and it was every bit as fun as you might imagine.


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Mon May 03, 2021 9:02 pm
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edogg wrote:
I don’t see why you couldn’t use a crank handle. Gatling guns are legal in WA and are considered an “other” so it’s a same day release with a NICS check.

They have had a little 9mm Tippman Gatling gun for sale at Securite for the low price of $5000. I also rented the one they have there and it was every bit as fun as you might imagine.


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Gatling guns don't fire two rounds per clickity though.

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Mon May 03, 2021 9:19 pm
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scrid2000 wrote:
edogg wrote:
I don’t see why you couldn’t use a crank handle. Gatling guns are legal in WA and are considered an “other” so it’s a same day release with a NICS check.

They have had a little 9mm Tippman Gatling gun for sale at Securite for the low price of $5000. I also rented the one they have there and it was every bit as fun as you might imagine.


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Gatling guns don't fire two rounds per clickity though.


I would say it's legal.
Gatling guns are legal.
Dual-barreled guns with one trigger are legal.
A double-AR assembly with a manual trigger mechanism seems to fit.
I'm also not a lawyer.

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Mon May 03, 2021 9:26 pm
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I'm pretty sure the ATF deemed those as illegal in the 90's

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Mon May 03, 2021 11:29 pm
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Mediumrarechicken wrote:
I'm pretty sure the ATF deemed those as illegal in the 90's


They're not illegal, at least not this iteration.
https://gatcrank.com/faq/

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Mon May 03, 2021 11:35 pm
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Mediumrarechicken wrote:
I'm pretty sure the ATF deemed those as illegal in the 90's


No, they did not.

Maybe you're thinking of the Lightning link or something like that.


Mon May 03, 2021 11:51 pm
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I owns a crank but i don't use it.


Mon May 03, 2021 11:54 pm
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1811GNR wrote:
The reason the binary trigger manufacturers won't sell their triggers to Washington residents is because the state defines a machinegun as being able to fire 5 or more rounds per second, so, 300 rounds per minute, among the other usual definitions

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With a bit of practice, someone can fire anything semiauto or even a revolver 5 or more rounds a second. A testament to asinine laws, I guess.

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Mon May 03, 2021 11:59 pm
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scrid2000 wrote:
edogg wrote:
I don’t see why you couldn’t use a crank handle. Gatling guns are legal in WA and are considered an “other” so it’s a same day release with a NICS check.

They have had a little 9mm Tippman Gatling gun for sale at Securite for the low price of $5000. I also rented the one they have there and it was every bit as fun as you might imagine.


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Gatling guns don't fire two rounds per clickity though.
You’re thinking a binary trigger. A crank handle is a little crank that mounts to the trigger and pulls it as fast as you can turn the crank.


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Tue May 04, 2021 4:25 am
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I thought there was an ammo shortage?
Seems like anyone talking about shooting more and faster must have many thousands of extra rounds to waste.
:popcorn:

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Tue May 04, 2021 4:47 am
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Wa state does have a unique description of a machine gun


"(19) "Machine gun" means any firearm known as a machine gun, mechanical rifle, submachine gun, or any other mechanism or instrument not requiring that the trigger be pressed for each shot and having a reservoir clip, disc, drum, belt, or other separable mechanical device for storing, carrying, or supplying ammunition which can be loaded into the firearm, mechanism, or instrument, and fired therefrom at the rate of five or more shots per second."

So if i read this right, as long as a gun fires 299 rounds a minute or less it isnt considered a MG by state definition?


Tue May 04, 2021 8:05 pm
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