Let’s see if I got this right.


� If a dude pretends to be a woman, you are required to pretend with him.

� Somehow it’s Un-American for the census to count how many Americans are in America.

� Russians influencing our elections are bad, but illegal Mexicans voting in our elections are good.

� It was cool for Joe Biden to "blackmail" the President of Ukraine, but it's an impeachable offense if the President inquires about it.

� Twenty is too young to drink a beer, but eighteen is old enough to vote.

� People who have never owned slaves should pay slavery reparations to people who have never been slaves. This after 250,000 white union soldiers died to free the slaves and the subsequent freed slaves had already been given 40 acres and a mule to stimulate their life of freedom.

� Inflammatory rhetoric is outrageous, but harassing conservative people in restaurants is virtuous

� People who have never been to college should pay the debts of college students who took out huge loans for useless degrees.

� Immigrants with tuberculosis and polio are welcome, but you'd better be able to prove your dog is vaccinated.

� Irish doctors and German engineers who want to immigrate must go through a rigorous vetting process, but any illiterate Central-American gang-banger who jumps the southern fence is welcome.

� $5 billion for border security is too expensive, but $1.5 trillion for 'free' health care is not.

� If you cheat to get into college you go to prison, but if you cheat to get into the country you go to college for free.

� People who say there is no such thing as gender are demanding a female President.

� We see other countries going Socialist and collapsing, and it seems like a great plan to us.

� Some people are held responsible for things that happened before they were born, and other people are not held responsible for what they are doing right now.

� Criminals are catch-and-released to hurt more people, but stopping them is bad because it's a violation of THEIR rights.

� And pointing out all this hypocrisy somehow makes us "racists"?!

......sorry to inform.

When that 5 billion is for a wall that can be walked around, under and over, it is too much. The wall works a little better than a red line painted on the ground.

What would work much better is penalizing employers for hiring illegal aliens. But that will not happen much as the wealthy got that way by standing on the backs of the people they exploited. It is easier to exploit people who are in the country illegally. That is why the GOP will never take any meaningful stand on stopping illegal aliens from entering the country. That is why Trump said he would get Mexico to pay for the wall. He knew it would never happen, so his lie was a ready excuse for not building the wall during his first (only?) term.

Failing to keep his promise to make Mexico pay was his excuse for shutting down the government and raiding the military budget for funds to build (and paint?) the wall.

$1.5 trillion for health care seems a bit low. I read that we spend about $2.8 trillion on health care now, but single payer care would cost $2.2 trillion. The budget for the USA in 2019 was about $3.5 trillion. The USA GNP was $19 trillion in 2019.

I think the average increase in taxes to coverage a single payer program would be more than offset by the savings on buying medical care and private insurance. Even when a person can afford their employer's health care plan, the employer is probably paying a large chunk of the premiums from their own pocket.

I willing to bet that most people here on the forum are not wealthy enough to "self insure" themselves and have some sort of medical insurance to pay for expensive health care. I have Tricare which costs me and other military retirees nearly $600 per year; a very good deal. Tricare covers about 9 million people in the USA. I'd like to see all citizens get this coverage. I would be bankrupt without this coverage as I've had several surgeries and my wife had cancer since I retired from the Navy.

People like to call universal health care socialism or communism, but it is really just a large insurance scheme spread out to cover everyone. If universal health care is communism, then is the insurance the military uses the same thing? I don't think so.

The military selectively picks who is a member and if/when then become too old and/or too damaged, they quickly jettison them.

People with a good 20 years active/reserve federal service and sign up for Tricare for Retirees while you still posses your CAC card before you actually retire get to go on Tricare.

Somewhat true. I was injured at my 15 year point. I was allowed 18 months and several surgeries to recover. I eventually passed a submarine duty screening and was returned to full duty. When my condition worsened, I was allowed to stay on permanent limited duty for 2 years while working as a shore facility with a $10,400/year pay cut. I was allowed to complete 20 years so I could be placed on the permanent disabled list and keep my benefits.

I see no reason why life saving medical care can not be paid for by the government as a perk of being a US Citizen.

I've studied socialized healthcare in great depth.

First, let me tell you, the SP countries of the world only exist because of our system floating most of their R&D costs and incentivising new research and tech. Without us, that all stops.

Second, SP is literally government death panels. We know this because of the ACA's attempted I.P.A.B. and that Congress purposefully set it up so that the IPAB and the Sec of DHS had the final say on mass care rationing and it would take a 2/3 vote of Congress to override them, which basically meant they wouldn't. Thank God the GOP repealed it.

I can give you countless examples of foreign SP healthcare systems effectively EXECUTING their citizens. Charlie Gard comes to mind. His parents fund-raised money to bring him to the US for treatment and the UK decided that might embarrass them so they locked the baby down and even attempted to schedule its euthenization.

Medicaid is not even insurance. It's a secured loan that takes everything you own when you die and lowballs doctors pennies on the dollar so that most docs won't even take it anymore.

Being a doctor requires tons of schooling and lots of $. If the profit incentive for doing it is destroyed, what will you do with the resulting doctor shortage?

This is only the surface. I've studied this for years, have lots of docs and nurses in my family, both private and some military, but I don't want to write a book here, I just wanted to let you know I wasn't going to let someone make those claims about socialized healthcare go without being challenged.

If you're trying to convince me that using a single payer health care system in the USA will make it illegal for Americans to buy private health care, I don't believe you.

Based on what I read of the Gard case, the London hospital and Dr. Hirano agreed to treat Gard in New York. But then Gard had another seizure. The London hospital send it was too late and went to court to stop the transfer to New York. Dr. Hirano eventually agreed it was too late as did the parents.

Please show me the countless examples.

First, what Alpine said.

Second, outside of a homogeneous society that pressures people to work (I'm thinking Sweden), and it doesn't work forever, single payer or government run health care will not and never has worked. Closest we had was the previous county run hospital system in the US that provided a safety net for all Americans. And that was a functioning society that did not actively encourage freeloading.

Third, because of regulations, cost shifting, medical data entry, Big Pharma, poor nutrition, and now COVID-19, etc. etc. it is impossible for any medical system to work. Any usage on your part means less profits in the insurer's part. In addition, the graying of the US population will invariably lead to rationing or killing the elderly to make ends meet.

So what would you do to improve health care access then?

You just admitted that the NHS and the UK government stalled for time under Gard couldn't get treatment. They never fully agreed for him to go. At one point the NHS sued to get custody removed from the parents because they felt the parents might object to the NHS's plans for Charlie and try to leave the country.

This doc claims the NHS kills off 130k elderly Britons every year.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -year.html

Single payer systems aren't just about money, they also give the government a monopoly of the care infrastructure, so even if you sell everything you own it doesn't do you any good if the government won't let you schedule any operating room use.

If you want to see how bad the attempts at it have been in America, go look up "certificate of need" and see the damage they did before most states got rid of them or modified them to stop inhibiting private competition.

First, everyone has access. Always had it.

Second, get the federal government 100% out of funding it thru Medicare, medicaid. Stop collecting it and only provide for people who paid in with declining participation until they are out.. Aside from a few rules allowing companies to compete across state lines, not honoring contracts, which are already on the books, stay out. This would also cut out the massive fraud in people fraudulently applying for benefits.

Apply Calif Prop 187 standards and only allow emergency care to non-Citizens.

Restart the county run hospital system.

and that's a start.

Requiring free ER care in a country that lets you go to Burger King and eat yourself to death is insane. Freedom also means you are responsible for your choices. We definitely need to get rid of free ER care.

Actually I said that after the child's January seizure all eventually agreed that it was hopeless and it was that seizure that made it so.


I'll take a look if I can get around their ad blocker. But here is some free advice. If you want someone to doubt your source, quoting the Daily Fail is one of the best ways to do it.

How would you obtain medical care if you had no insurance, very little money and no access to an ER?

How is that paid for?