Gun store Shooting Locations It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:56 pm



Rules WGO Chat Room Gear Rent Me Shield NRA SAF CCKRBA
Calendar




Reply to topic  [ 454 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29 ... 31  Next
 1926 Model TT Restoration: Engine/Trans Rebuild 
Author Message
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Tacoma
Joined: Sat May 4, 2013
Posts: 6196
Getting back on the TT after finishing some Honey-do stuff.. As a recap, the engine and transmission are freshly rebuilt. Now its time to drop it back into the truck.

Here is the engine and trans ready to go

Image


Here is the engine-less truck

Image


It took some finagling and tipping of the engine to get the trans under the firewall, and I was too busy to take pics of the whole evolution. But here is the end result

Image


Here is a closeup of the new head.

Image

The "Z" marking denotes a high-compression head. Regular T heads ran about 4:1. The Z heads run 6:1. There is even a "P" head that runs 8:1. But for me the Z is the best mix of drivability, reliability and cost. It should up the factory 20 hp by 7-10 hp, which doesn't sound like much, but that's a 35% to 50% increase over stock! Where it will make the most difference is in hill climbing ability. I should be able to climb most hills in high gear. Before I had to go into low gear, which is about 5 mph. Makes for a very slow climb. In high gear I should be able to triple that speed.


Bolting the engine and trans down is pretty simple. One mount on the snout, where the hand crank goes.

Image

And two bolts on the rear support bracket

Image


I am making one big change to the running gear. The truck had an original Warford auxiliary transmission, which is an aftermarket accessory. The factory Ford transmission only has a high and a low gear. The Warford adds an under drive, a direct gearing, and an overdrive for each Ford gear. That gives you 6 forward speeds vs two. It also gives you 3 reverse speeds. Not that you would ever use 3 reverse gears much. The big advantage of an auxiliary transmission is the overdrive. A stock TT truck is ridiculously low geared - it tops out at 20 mph or so. The Warford in overdrive bumps that to over 30 mph. The only downside to a Warford is that the original units were a bitch to shift. You have to float the gears just right and match speeds. And double clutch on downshifts. Since I only drive the truck on good weather days, I don't get that much practice. I could hit maybe 60-70% of my shifts without grinding or completely missing the gear. And when you miss a gear, you are stuck in neutral. The Warford will not go back into gear. This causes two problems. First, the main Model T brake is on the Ford transmission drum. Pushing on the brake pedal clamps the brake band around the drum, and slows the transmission. And since the transmission is connected to the drive shaft, the differential and rear axles also slow. However, the Warford is located between the Ford transmission and the driveshaft. When the Warford is in neutral, that severs the connection between the Ford transmission and the driveshaft. So, no rear brakes except the emergency brake. And those fade quickly. And Model Ts have no front brakes. Thats why I previously installed hydraulic brakes on the truck. The second issue with missing a Warford shift is that you cannot get the Warford back into gear without first stopping the truck, shutting off the engine, putting the Warford into gear, starting the engine and then taking off. Actually, you can also just stab the reverse pedal while you are stopped and idling, which stops the trans from spinning, and then slap the Warford into gear. But you still have to come to a complete stop. Finally, I want to pass the truck down to my son, and double-clutching is a lost skill these days. He will enjoy the truck much more, and drive it more, with a synchronized transmission.


Here is the original Warford transmission still in the truck

Image


Here it is removed

Image


Here is a modern Warford, manufactured by KC Layne. It is fully synchronized, and cannot get stuck between gears. These transmissions are highly respected by the Model T community. They provide the same under drive/direct/overdrive gearing, in a package that is smaller, much lighter and won't leave you without brakes.

Image


Here it is installed

Image

Image


Needed a new back bracket to support the rear of the new Warford

Image


Up next is the rear axle rebuild. It needs new bearings, seals and probably ring gear. I will know more once it is apart. The truck will also need a new torque tube and driveshaft, and new rear radius rods, because the new Warford is 4 inches shorter than the old one. That means my existing driveshaft and radius rods are now 4 inches too short. I know some Model TT guys who may be able to help on these parts. I would also like to find a set of express gears for the differential. The standard differential gear ratio is a 7:1. The Express gear is a 5:1. The advantage of the express gearing is a higher top speed. But those gear sets are hard to find. TT owners snap them up so their trucks can keep up with Model T cars, which have a 40-45 mph top speed. I have been looking for express gears, but no luck so far.


Fri May 06, 2022 1:21 pm
Profile
Online
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: South Seattle
Joined: Thu May 2, 2013
Posts: 12419
Real Name: Steve
Fascinating!

And nicely done! :thumbsup2:


Good luck finding those Express Gears! :cheers2:


Fri May 06, 2022 8:17 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: RENTON
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011
Posts: 20751
Real Name: John
You never cease to amaze me with your skills Ray. :bow:

_________________
Mr. Q wrote: so basically, if you have to smoke some asshole, make sure they become fertilizer and then Bounce? got it.

Guntrader wrote: Huh, maybe I was an asshole.

NRA Member/RSO
SAF 5 Year Donor
GOA Member


Fri May 06, 2022 8:23 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Snohomish Co
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018
Posts: 1797
Monroe swap meet is a couple weeks out... If you buy stuff and need a place to stash it, i have a booth, offer is also open to all other wagunners.


Fri May 06, 2022 11:24 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Kentucky
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015
Posts: 11045
Great update

Always impressed with the thoroughness

_________________
You may be right, I may be crazy, but it just may be a lunatic you're looking for


Sat May 07, 2022 5:59 am
Profile
Online
Site Admin
User avatar
Site Admin

Location: Renton, WA
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011
Posts: 51918
Real Name: Steve
I've seen some high-compression tanks and artillery on TV recently.

_________________
Steve

Benefactor Life Member, National Rifle Association
Life Member, Second Amendment Foundation
Patriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of America
Life Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms
Legal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy Coalition
Member, NAGR/NFGR

Please support the organizations that support all of us.

Leave it cleaner than you found it.


Sat May 07, 2022 6:21 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Snohomish Co
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018
Posts: 1797
I spy i '26 or '27 roadster in the first pic you posted yesterday, is that yours too?


Sat May 07, 2022 10:26 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Tacoma
Joined: Sat May 4, 2013
Posts: 6196
shaggy wrote:
I spy i '26 or '27 roadster in the first pic you posted yesterday, is that yours too?

Good eye Shaggy! It’s my buddy’s 1927 roadster pickup that he is building out of gathered parts. Let me know where your booth at Monroe is, so I can drop by and say hello!


Sat May 07, 2022 3:44 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Snohomish Co
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018
Posts: 1797
Arisaka wrote:
shaggy wrote:
Let me know where your booth at Monroe is, so I can drop by and say hello!

I'll be between the totem poles and the highway. Red and white bronco and a trailer loaded with parts, everything from t tin, thru a trans am hood. I may not be at my both since i'm also on the hunt, so i have a friend in a neighboring both that may be helping(usually my dad does, but he is out with a bad hip). If i am there, i'm 36 with a mutton chop mustache and undoubtedly a vintage hot rod shirt, mabey a divers street rods coat.


Thu May 19, 2022 9:36 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Snohomish Co
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018
Posts: 1797
shaggy wrote:
Arisaka wrote:
shaggy wrote:
Let me know where your booth at Monroe is, so I can drop by and say hello!

I'll be between the totem poles and the highway. Red and white bronco and a trailer loaded with parts, everything from t tin, thru a trans am hood. I may not be at my both since i'm also on the hunt, so i have a friend in a neighboring both that may be helping(usually my dad does, but he is out with a bad hip). If i am there, i'm 36 with a mutton chop mustache and undoubtedly a vintage hot rod shirt, mabey a divers street rods coat.

Looks like i wont be able to park a my booth this year.


Fri May 20, 2022 7:10 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Tacoma
Joined: Sat May 4, 2013
Posts: 6196
Finally assembled enough parts to rebuild the rear axle. The hardest part to find is the ring gear, both because only 1 in 5 model T were one-ton trucks, and only a small portion of those had the gear ratio I was looking for. Most Model TT trucks came from the factory with a "farm gear" which is 7:25:1. Good for heavy hauling up hills, but not so good for top speed. There were some TT trucks built with an "express gear" which is 5:17:1, and provided about 10 mph higher top speed. That gear is what I was searching for. I found one online from a very helpful gentleman in Virginia. Here it is, along with the worm gear that mates with it:


Image


When buying these gears, its important to look for wear. All the wear occurs in the ring gear, since it is bronze. The worm is steel. The trick is to look for a flat top on the gear. When new, the flat on top of the gear teeth was around 01 inch or so. Maybe a bit more. Gears that are used up are worn down to a knife edge. Here is the gear I bought. Looks to be about 50% worn, which over almost 100 years means I can expect a lot of years from it


Image


The TT differential is very different from the Model T cars. The cars use a typical ring and pinion. Here is a pic of a Model T car differential


Image


Here is a TT Truck differential


Image


Since there are very few TT rear axle parts being made, you have to find the parts you need. So the next step was to disassemble a couple of TT axles my buddy had on hand, looking for usable axles, bearings, and other unobtainable parts. Here are some pics of tearing down those two axles


Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


Here are. the parts we ended up with:

Differential halves, bearings, spider gear, worm gear cap and wheel bearing sleeves

Image


Here is a special tool used to remove the wheel bearing sleeves

Image


Wheel bearings

Image


Worm gear bearings and thrust bearings

Image


Rear axles

Image


Axle housings

Image


Backing plates

Image


Next up is assembly of the rear axle. Then I will need a new drive shaft, torque tube and radius rods. My new Warford transmission 12 inches long vs 16 inches for the old Warford I took out. This makes the old drive line and other parts 4 inches too short. So I need to locate full-length drive shaft/torque tube/radius rods from a TT that had no Aux Transmission at all. Then those parts have to be shortened around 12 inches to span the distance from the rear of the new Warford to the rear axle.


Last edited by Arisaka on Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:17 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Snohomish Co
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018
Posts: 1797
It doesnt look like there is any way to adjust the backlash on the gears, is there?

I've done my fair share of early ford rears, so i'm familiar with the whole stacking gaskets thing


Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:19 pm
Profile
Online
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: South Seattle
Joined: Thu May 2, 2013
Posts: 12419
Real Name: Steve
Nice Find!!! :thumbsup2:

:cheers2:


Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:32 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Everson, WA
Joined: Sun Jan 6, 2013
Posts: 28149
Real Name: Ace Winky
Brass ring, interesting. I wonder what alloy and I think of the lubes 100years ago. Wrong oil, not set up right - I bet plenty of those got chewed.

TT differences. Thank you for the pics and details! :bow:

_________________
Why does the Penguin in Batman sound like a duck?

Because the eagle sounds like a hawk.


Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:38 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Tacoma
Joined: Sat May 4, 2013
Posts: 6196
shaggy wrote:
It doesnt look like there is any way to adjust the backlash on the gears, is there?

I've done my fair share of early ford rears, so i'm familiar with the whole stacking gaskets thing

Shaggy knows this far better than me, but on a ring and pinion rear end you move the crown gear closer to or farther from the pinion to adjust backlash. On the TT there is no way to move the ring gear farther away from the worm, or he worm farther from the ring. So I’m flying with what I got. I figure it worked before, so it should work again.


Fri Jun 17, 2022 1:45 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 454 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29 ... 31  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum



Rules WGO Chat Room Gear Rent Me NRA SAF CCKRBA
Calendar


Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software for PTF.
[ Time : 0.619s | 16 Queries | GZIP : Off ]