Doing stuff right the first time is cheap and easy. Retro fitting stuff is generally expensive and hard.

Shutoff for ideal individual locations would require cutting into walls, lots of labor and parts, and more time/skill than I have at the moment. The skill difficulty level is do-able. But the risk of doing it wrong could cause thousands of dollars in water damage and I'm unwilling to risk that (i.e. if I'm gone, and my work fails, and it leaks, I come home to a ruined house.).

This is something that should have been done and framed in correctly from the start at trivial cost when licensed plumbers and framers had open access. For the plumber to do it right there on the spot, probably 15 minutes and $10 in parts. The framer, also simple. An access panel door is about all that is required, or similar. All in all, I can't see it costing $100 in parts/labor. Wrapped into the cost of a house, that's not even noticeable. For me to retro it, it's probably an entire wasted weekend and may not turn out correctly. And far more than $100...

I could hire someone, but it's not a high priority at the moment to invest a lot of money into a house I may sell in the short term.... (i.e. this faucet has been leaking for many months and I've ignored it b/c I knew or suspected it would be a big time consuming suck project - which it has been 10s of hours of wasted time.

This just isn't close to being true, otherwise everybody would do it.

What do you do when the shutoff value leaks? How will you replace it? Well, you need a shutoff valve before it. What about when that one leaks? Another shutoff valve!

If this was something you replaced every other week, like toilet paper, sure it would be easy to do. But it's not something done very often. You say it's a part from the 80's.

No, it's probably a less than 12 year old part (circa 2007 installation date). My point is this type of part should be over-built so as to last a lot longer than 15 years. Should last 50 years. No reason for it to be $80 and last only 15 years, and require such massive effort to extract and replace.

The deeper parts are within a (engine, house, plumbing, etc.) the more over-built they should be... anything dealing with water inside walls and houses should be overbuilt b/c the damage that failure can cause is significant.

You keep talking about all the foresight the plumbers & builders should have 30 years down the road, how about your foresight on how long it would take the part to get there, and the hassle?

I would have told the CS Rep thanks for the warranteed part, but I'd like to pay the difference between what you will pay for shipping, and overnighting it, and have the part overnighted.

Ah, yee of little faith. I did ask exactly that. She said the soonest it would go out is probably Monday, and it will get here Tuesday regardless. I can't get it faster, unless I were to drive 4 hours and buy it...

Oh, dang...

And I'm not of little faith, I have great faith....just not in people

Well, at least you can take great comfort in the fact that, in 10-15 years, when that part fails again, some guy is gonna be on a gun forum, pissing and moaning, and asking why, if a guy already had the wall open, already had the part out, didn't he replace it all with better parts, and perhaps take the time to install a valve.

Why was he so cheap and not thinking of me?



J/k- glad you found the part

Amen.

you know... I've been reading this thinking about how you got 12 or 15 years of service out of the item which costs around $80 and are pissed that it has to be taken out of service for a few hours to fix it (The thing is nasty looking and should just probably be replaced... but I digress)

and there is this caterwalling about how there should be some kind of mechanism in place (a mechanism which adds another element to the arrangement - an element that can develop its own problems) so that the valve can be serviced without taking the house off line...

and I'm thinking about other mechanisms that cost vastly more, and have a service life less than what you got from the valve... like say... your car. When your car goes catywhompus and they can't disconnect the waterpump from the engine in a manner which still allows you to get to work... do you feel the same amount of consternation and indignation?

Another thing... the item is set up to be a plug - n- play... that's what the cartridge system is all about. Probably there were some clues that it needed to be serviced... maybe it was difficult to turn on or adjust?

I dunno... just seems like you're investing wa-a-ay too much emotion into a failed part. Unless the thing was GUSHING water allowing it to slow leak for the next three or four days as it has been doing, shouldn't cause too much if any additional damage?

The meter is at the edge of the yard. It has a on/off switch (gate valve) on it. Turn it off when you go to work... turn it on when you need water. Pretend you're camping and put some potable water in jugs or buy a case for $3.99 for use until the (free) cartridge is delivered.

Don't forget some silicon grease for the o-rings before installing the new cartridge.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot, you dismantled the valve before you had a replacement part and the system is wide open... I guess you ARE camping!

Um, hang on a second...

The part is about $10 or less in raw materials. A small amount of threaded brass, a couple ceramic discs, and some molded plastic and rubber seals/rings. The companies purposefully design these more complex than necessary so they can change them up regularly. There's probably 100s of designs on the market that do the same exact thing. Much like other consumer goods, the only purpose is to make them short-lived and forced upgrades.

It could EASILY be built out of harder/better materials (MIM, polymer, etc.) and last 100 years. It's purpose is to open/close for relatively gentle water to pass through or be stopped.

So the primary gripe is with the companies that design these TO fail and TO be complicated to replace. Did you miss where there's NO markings on this? Yes, a lifetime warranty. I'd wager most people would call a plumber, and he'd say this part is unknown or not available, and charge $500-1000 for a total overhaul, and folks would just pay it. Then he'd rip the whole thing out, and put in another 5-15 year time bomb, kicking the can down the road.

If I could upgrade it with an over-built part, I would. In my research there is none. They are all in the same game. Build 'em to break in a decade or so. Make 'em non-compatible, and change the designs to the replacements are unlikely. Then require total overhauls.

I hopefully got lucky and will have the part in a few days.

Yes, I'm "camping" in my house. Water is off, turning on as needed. A hassle. But better than the alternatives.

12 years, your lucky they are sending you a part and not claiming that was the lifetime of the part.

ON that point, you are correct. It's a trivial amount of money big picture, but I love sticking it to these companies that build junk on purpose.

12 years is an unacceptably short lifespan for this type of part IMO. Not even daily use, maybe average 10 minutes of gentle water flow per day. Trivial use. Should last many decades.

Anyway, I stress great customer service by Maribelle and Danes for their great help and service.

So you have the "Taurus" of shower valves?

Realistically you have kind of an odd mix valve. You'd be better off installing a new valve that takes a simple cartridge than spending all this time putting a band aid on a poorly designed valve. If you upgraded now it would save you a lot of headache down the road. When mine were dripping it took 30 minutes to shut off the water, change the cartridge, and turn the water back on and we were back in businese.

Good thought. I had considered that. Sadly, that entails not insignificant cost/effort.

And entire new setup. I'm told the plumbing hardware is not compatible from brand to brand, so pipes and fixtures require replacement. And then it makes no sense to go "cheap." So it would only make sense to go expensive. If I go "high end" that's probably 2 bills or more, I suppose I could spend many hundreds on this. Then a day of work tearing out and replacing everything that's not compatible with the old system. I have no idea the level of involvement there. But it's otherwise solving lots of problems when I as of now have to solve only one. And it's a free solution. When I get the part, assuming it's correct, it's a 10 minute fix.

And this isn't my forever home. A 10 year solution now is fine. I'll leave the next homeowner details on the part number and company so they don't have this headache. I'm not staying in this house long-term. Yes, I'll be kicking the can down the road... much like those before me when it was FAR cheaper and easier to install quality. But he'll be far ahead of me with the part number and phone number and a much simpler problem. Just call and order the part and have it shipped.

Good news, the shipping tracker sent out the part today, UPS. Will arrive Monday!!!!! :) Very pleased.