I think people put too much emphasis on the 'blue smoke' deal..... I think (IMO) that the reference to blue smoke has more to do with running an offset (or any) wood burning smoker --- waiting for blue smoke means that the wood 'logs' have burned down to a coal bed and producing 'clean' heat and smoke. And its a transient thing.... every time you throw another log on, there is going to be white smoke again. I think it is more of an issue when wood is being used as the source of heat AND smoke --- along with the enormous draw/draft that big offsets create. Jeremy Yoder always recommends using the smallest chunks of wood/logs you can to maintain temp so that they coal out quickly to avoid too much white smoke -- the trade off is having to feed the fire more often.
As I've noticed with the WSM - if you are just burning charcoal - there is no smoke - its clear. Once you throw some wood in there, then there is white smoke.... once the wood reaches coal stage, then it turns more 'blue'. I don't know how you could ever run a charcoal smoker with good smoke without generating white smoke.... Maybe you could coal the smoke wood first, but I would guess you would be missing out on a lot of flavor. I set up my WSM with a snake burn with wood placed for timed burning -- you can tell as one piece burns out and the smoke dies and then when another lights and starts generating white smoke again --- you can even tell what flavor it is by the smell.
I've run my BiL's traeger several times and have noticed that the only time that you really see it burn with a blue smoke is when it has reached temp and the auger stops feeding pellets... for the most part, it runs making white smoke. If you open the lid for more than 1-2 minutes.... guess what - white smoke.
Now, comparing it to my smoke tube that I run on the gas grill -- the tube is always generating white smoke. I do believe there is a difference between the two --- the difference is in that the pellet grills have the fan to force the pellets to burn hot and more efficiently while the tube is being fanned by just natural convection in a more smoldering CONSTANT burn. I was kinda surprised how much more smoke flavor I perceive from the tube on my gasser compared to the traeger....
I've seen it explained that the reason people prefer offset and charcoal smoked foods is because of the 'dirtier' burn and smoke generated. Inefficient burning preserves more of the smoke flavors that get destroyed by an efficient hot burn.
An example of how BBQ Pellets are made just for general info.
If you have "white" smoke from an offset stick burner, your Wood is not seasoned. If you smoke with unseasoned Wood, it will impart a bitter flavor.
Charcoal burns "clean" with little smoke because well, it's Charcoal. It's already been burned and is merely a "Coal" at that point. Pellets without any Fan burn with white smoke, because it's not burning at a hot enough temp to be a clean burn.
White smoke can be a bad thing with wood, it can be an Ok thing with Pellets. With a Gas Grill and a smoke tube your are "seasoning" the Meat with smoke, you are not "Smoking" it with Wood.
It's not necessarily a bad thing, it's just not the same thing as "Cooking/Smoking" with Wood.
JMB, you have produced some really good looking BBQ, but unless you have done some real Wood burning Smoking you haven't really had the full comparable experience.
The bottom line in my Years of experience Smoking Meat is you cannot impart the same Smoked flavor into it with any other method as well as can be done with burning real wood.
I'm pretty sure that Keystone guy would agree with me.
Charcoal and Pellet Smoker's come in 2nd, little difference between the two in my opinion. The advantage of the Pellet Smoker is the set and forget aspect.
You can't "Snake" "Minion" etc, a Charcoal Smoker and leave it for 8 hours with any consistency, it just won't happen and you can't load any Charcoal Smoker i have ever seen with that much fuel.
Yes an offset stick burner requires skill and babysitting, but the reward is there if you want the real deal experience and results. Me? I'm old and Lazy so the Pellet Smoker is my "go to" anymore.
Having said that, i have laid in a nice supply of seasoned Alder and will be firing it up this weekend. It's been too long since i have run it.
Bottom line is do what you like and what make's you happy, but you can't beat the oldest way known to Man to Smoke Meat and the end result with any method other than that.
There is a reason why the top BBQ houses and the Champion BBQ Winner's use real Wood. It's not just a tradition, it's the best result.
_________________ Mr. Q wrote: so basically, if you have to smoke some asshole, make sure they become fertilizer and then Bounce? got it.
For the smoker enthusiasts on the site, if anybody is in the North End and wants to jump into a Big Green Egg, I have some large eggs available to me for six bills with a rolling cart. A fair chunk off the usually $1,000+ price tag.
_________________
Sinus211 wrote:
Z66 and I still fuck on the regular.
zombie66 wrote:
Mikey is a Bossy Bottom.....
Last edited by Pvanderzee on Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
You can't "Snake" "Minion" etc, a Charcoal Smoker and leave it for 8 hours with any consistency, it just won't happen and you can't load any Charcoal Smoker i have ever seen with that much fuel.
I have done several 10-14hr briskets on my Coyote Asado, a Big Green Egg clone. It can be done, and I always have a bit of fuel left over. You'll find many kamado smoker users with similar experiences.
I won't contest the flavor part, as I've never run a stick burner. But fuel load and burn time has never been an issue with me when it comes to charcoal in my Asado.
_________________
Sinus211 wrote:
Z66 and I still fuck on the regular.
zombie66 wrote:
Mikey is a Bossy Bottom.....
Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:19 am
JohnMBrowning
Location: Bothell Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 Posts: 4872
Trust me --- I would LOVE to have an offset smoker - I have watched too many vids on the Lonestar smokers to say YES I want one! Can I justify one? No I've been really intrigued about these 'reverse flow' smokers too.... I think Lonestar is making RF smokers, and Jeremy just went and visited this guy - they look like quality units too!
I would never argue the superior ability/flavors of an offset... I'm sure it has to do with the shear volume of wood being burnt per unit time and the draw/draft compared to all the other methods. Pellet smokers typically burn ~1#/hour depending on size and temp --- I'm sure an offset is more than that.... especially when you consider the initial loading to form the coal bed.
usrifle wrote:
With a Gas Grill and a smoke tube your are "seasoning" the Meat with smoke, you are not "Smoking" it with Wood.
I would ague that is more dependent on the time and temp that you cook.... Ask Steve about that with the Bullseye. Low and slow all the way for me. I'm sure that there are many pellet smokers out there that 'think' their chicken (and other meats) are 'smoked' when they cooked them at 300+ for 1-1.5 hours (or less) --- I would argue that would be more towards the 'seasoning' side. My cooks are typically ~3 hours at ~225.
usrifle wrote:
You can't "Snake" "Minion" etc, a Charcoal Smoker and leave it for 8 hours with any consistency, it just won't happen and you can't load any Charcoal Smoker i have ever seen with that much fuel.
Again, I would beg to differ.... the WSM is very stable if set up right and dialed in properly -- sure there are some swings now and then, but just as much as most any non-PID controlled unit. And if you use the water pan the way it is meant to be used --- thats just a safety net to keep things low and keep the swings from being too great. Throwing a temp controlled fan on them is even better --- but I would consider that cheating
usrifle wrote:
There is a reason why the top BBQ houses and the Champion BBQ Winner's use real Wood.
Watch some of Harry Soo's vids when he starts panning around his trophy rooms - its DAMN impressive!!! I'm pretty sure most, if not all, of his wins are done on a WSM. I think that would be splitting hairs to argue whether coal+wood is the same as straight wood fired.... Jeremy has stated many times that the bigger the pit, the bigger the flavor --- which I think goes back again to the draft/draw thru the pit.
Jeremy has been trying to figure out the difference between offset and pellet smoke for a while.... Here is his theory on why ---
As he has said many times --- its not so much the equipment that you use, its the technique and understanding the fundamentals and your equipment.
Just to add --- Looking forward to Kyle weighing in once he gets a chance to run his 'big' WSM a couple of times....
_________________ Plan B is actually repeating Plan A.... it just involves much more alcohol.
Of the ten voices I hear in my head, only three keep telling me NOT to shoot.... Do I go with the majority or common sense?
Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:39 pm
usrifle
Site Supporter
Location: RENTON Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 Posts: 20771
Real Name: John
You can't "Snake" "Minion" etc, a Charcoal Smoker and leave it for 8 hours with any consistency, it just won't happen and you can't load any Charcoal Smoker i have ever seen with that much fuel.
I have done several 10-14hr briskets on my Coyote Asado, a Big Green Egg clone. It can be done, and I always have a bit of fuel left over. You'll find many kamado smoker users with similar experiences.
I won't contest the flavor part, as I've never run a stick burner. But fuel load and burn time has never been an issue with me when it comes to charcoal in my Asado.
You can do that 10-14 hour cook without adding anymore Charcoal? That thing must have a huge capacity!
I have never finished a whole Packer in under 16 hours myself, even with my Stick burner offset. Hat's off to the Asado.
JMB.....I'm a big fan of Charcoal smoking to be honest, it's how i got started and produces great Wood flavor. I use chunks of Hickory when i use mine, the added flavor brings it very close to an offset stick burner.
The Pellet Smoker's do a great job too, and you just can't beat the convenience.
I'm not knocking anyone's method of BBQ, (I'm not a self proclaimed expert) but i am a bit of a purist. Thin blue Smoke from real Wood is the pinnacle IMHO, i just have not been able to replicate that with either Charcoal or Pellets.
Having said that, the Masterbuilt unit is very intriguing....I damn near bought one until i reigned myself in.
_________________ Mr. Q wrote: so basically, if you have to smoke some asshole, make sure they become fertilizer and then Bounce? got it.
Guntrader wrote: Huh, maybe I was an asshole.
NRA Member/RSO SAF 5 Year Donor GOA Member
Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:54 pm
JohnMBrowning
Location: Bothell Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 Posts: 4872
People keep saying charcoal in itself doesn't impact any smoke flavor. But lighting a chimney anyone can find the giant plume of white smoke that comes out of charcoal for a good several minutes. Is that charcoal smoke contributing to any good or bad flavors?
You can't "Snake" "Minion" etc, a Charcoal Smoker and leave it for 8 hours with any consistency, it just won't happen and you can't load any Charcoal Smoker i have ever seen with that much fuel.
I have done several 10-14hr briskets on my Coyote Asado, a Big Green Egg clone. It can be done, and I always have a bit of fuel left over. You'll find many kamado smoker users with similar experiences.
I won't contest the flavor part, as I've never run a stick burner. But fuel load and burn time has never been an issue with me when it comes to charcoal in my Asado.
You can do that 10-14 hour cook without adding anymore Charcoal? That thing must have a huge capacity!
I have never finished a whole Packer in under 16 hours myself, even with my Stick burner offset. Hat's off to the Asado.
It's noting particularly special, just a perk of kamado grills. You can fit about 3/4 of a bag of lump charcoal, or about 15-20lbs. The fuel can burn slower because the smoker itself holds temperature so well. I'm told that airflow is also a factor. kamado grills have less airflow than a stick burner or pellet grill. The pellet grill has forced induction because of the fan, and the stick burner has the constant smoke flow. Both of those keep the meat slightly cooler. So running a stick burner at 275 isn't the same as running a kamado at 275 in the long run.
_________________
Sinus211 wrote:
Z66 and I still fuck on the regular.
zombie66 wrote:
Mikey is a Bossy Bottom.....
Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:55 pm
usrifle
Site Supporter
Location: RENTON Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 Posts: 20771
Real Name: John
You can't "Snake" "Minion" etc, a Charcoal Smoker and leave it for 8 hours with any consistency, it just won't happen and you can't load any Charcoal Smoker i have ever seen with that much fuel.
I have done several 10-14hr briskets on my Coyote Asado, a Big Green Egg clone. It can be done, and I always have a bit of fuel left over. You'll find many kamado smoker users with similar experiences.
I won't contest the flavor part, as I've never run a stick burner. But fuel load and burn time has never been an issue with me when it comes to charcoal in my Asado.
You can do that 10-14 hour cook without adding anymore Charcoal? That thing must have a huge capacity!
I have never finished a whole Packer in under 16 hours myself, even with my Stick burner offset. Hat's off to the Asado.
It's noting particularly special, just a perk of kamado grills. You can fit about 3/4 of a bag of lump charcoal, or about 15-20lbs. The fuel can burn slower because the smoker itself holds temperature so well. I'm told that airflow is also a factor. kamado grills have less airflow than a stick burner or pellet grill. The pellet grill has forced induction because of the fan, and the stick burner has the constant smoke flow. Both of those keep the meat slightly cooler. So running a stick burner at 275 isn't the same as running a kamado at 275 in the long run.
Well color me impressed by that.
I'm dusting off the stick burner for a cook this weekend, trying to decide what it will be at this point. It might be a combo cook, i'm thinking Ribs and Fatties.
It's been 2 Years since i have trotted the old Smokey Joe's Stick burner out, should be a good time.
_________________ Mr. Q wrote: so basically, if you have to smoke some asshole, make sure they become fertilizer and then Bounce? got it.
Guntrader wrote: Huh, maybe I was an asshole.
NRA Member/RSO SAF 5 Year Donor GOA Member
Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:03 am
JohnMBrowning
Location: Bothell Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 Posts: 4872
I know I've gotten a solid 7+ hours out of my 18" WSM with only a ~2/3 load --- and that was with some low btu coals --- I'm certain I could easily push that out to 12+ hours with a full load of 'good' coal and probably more with a 'heavy' load. The 22" WSMs are good for 16-20 hours or more and even longer if you get a 'hi capacity' coal basket/ring. I just saw a vid of someone burning a 22" with hi-cap basket with a mix of lump and briquettes that ran for more than 48 hours.... the dude put like 30#s or more of coal in there!
And in all honesty - its not that hard to add or even reload a WSM if needed mid cook....
_________________ Plan B is actually repeating Plan A.... it just involves much more alcohol.
Of the ten voices I hear in my head, only three keep telling me NOT to shoot.... Do I go with the majority or common sense?
Last edited by JohnMBrowning on Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:23 am
usrifle
Site Supporter
Location: RENTON Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 Posts: 20771
Real Name: John
I know I've gotten a solid 7+ hours out of my 18" WSM with only a ~2/3 load --- and that was with some low btu coals --- I'm certain I could easily push that out to 12+ hours with a full load of 'good' coal and probably more with a 'heavy' load. The 22" WSMs are good for 16-20 hours or more and even longer if you get a 'hi capacity' coal basket/ring. I just saw a vid of someone burning a 22" with hi-cap basket with a mix of lump and briquettes that ran for more than 48 hours.
And in all honesty - its not that hard to add or even reload a WSM if needed mid cook....
48 hours?? Damn....
_________________ Mr. Q wrote: so basically, if you have to smoke some asshole, make sure they become fertilizer and then Bounce? got it.
Guntrader wrote: Huh, maybe I was an asshole.
NRA Member/RSO SAF 5 Year Donor GOA Member
Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:26 am
JohnMBrowning
Location: Bothell Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 Posts: 4872
I'm headed to Fred Meyer's in a few minutes, they have Baby back's on sale for 3.99lb. A couple racks won't be filling the Oklahoma Joe's offset, but it's a start. Time to fire the Iron Pig!
Edit: Apparently even after over a Year down and split, my Alder must still have too much moisture. It's throwing a white smoke and that's No bueno. It looks like i will be loading the offset with Charcoal and using Hickory chunks.
Oh well, at least i got it out and fired it up.
Edit again:. I got a bed of coals and a little venting and the Alder burns with a thin blue now. No Charcoal necessary.
_________________ Mr. Q wrote: so basically, if you have to smoke some asshole, make sure they become fertilizer and then Bounce? got it.
Guntrader wrote: Huh, maybe I was an asshole.
NRA Member/RSO SAF 5 Year Donor GOA Member
Last edited by usrifle on Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:34 am
usrifle
Site Supporter
Location: RENTON Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 Posts: 20771
Real Name: John
Niiiiice. When you first said you were going to fire it up this weekend, I almost text you, "yeah sure you are, you big talker" . . . but you came through!
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