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 what did you cook today thread 
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WanderingWalrus wrote:
GeekWithGuns wrote:
Question for you: what do you mean when you write 3-2-1 or 3-1-1? Thanks


3-2-1 is the name of the method - 3 hours unwrapped, building up bark, 2 hours wrapped to braise in their own juices and get tender, 1 hour unwrapped again to re-crisp that bark up. You can control the tenderness by changing the times of the various sections - the meat gets soft during the wrapped section so if you want a little firmer meat, shorten the wrapped section - firmer bark, lengthen the 1 hour section.

It's a good, consistent method. But much more annoying than "6 hours, unwrapped", which I switched to a few smokes ago.


Thanks for the info that really helps. I've become a fan of wrapping on brisket once it hits the stall though haven't tried it on ribs yet. Yeah my last batch of beef ribs I cooked for roughly 6 hours unwrapped relying instead on mopping every hour or so with a vinegar-hot sauce mix. My next batch of ribs I'll try out the 3-2-1 method instead for comparison.

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Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:20 am
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GeekWithGuns wrote:
I've become a fan of wrapping on brisket once it hits the stall though haven't tried it on ribs yet. Yeah my last batch of beef ribs I cooked for roughly 6 hours unwrapped relying instead on mopping every hour or so with a vinegar-hot sauce mix. My next batch of ribs I'll try out the 3-2-1 method instead for comparison.



Ah, the stall. I can talk about that for longer than most people are interested. I know what I do, and I'm completely non-traditional, but I'm also not American, so I've not got traditions to follow. That said, if you're doing beef ribs low and slow the whole way, try some kalbi marinade/sauce on them, too. East meeting West is usually a recipe for some deliciousness.


Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:11 am
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WanderingWalrus wrote:
GeekWithGuns wrote:
I've become a fan of wrapping on brisket once it hits the stall though haven't tried it on ribs yet. Yeah my last batch of beef ribs I cooked for roughly 6 hours unwrapped relying instead on mopping every hour or so with a vinegar-hot sauce mix. My next batch of ribs I'll try out the 3-2-1 method instead for comparison.



Ah, the stall. I can talk about that for longer than most people are interested. I know what I do, and I'm completely non-traditional, but I'm also not American, so I've not got traditions to follow. That said, if you're doing beef ribs low and slow the whole way, try some kalbi marinade/sauce on them, too. East meeting West is usually a recipe for some deliciousness.


Thanks for the kalbi suggestion!!! We cook bacon wrapped scallops skewered with a slice of water chestnut in the middle and covered with kalbi before cooking in the oven. I'll have to try kalbi as a mop on beef ribs also :thumbsup2: I come from an old-school suburban, wonder bread family from the 70's though my wife is Filipino having grown up on Guam, Hawaii, and the mainland. So we eat quite a bit of Filipino cuisine here also and are big seafood fans both raw and cooked.

What's your thoughts on getting through the stall with big cuts like brisket? I'm still fairly well a rookie when it comes to smoking brisket. My early brisket cooks came out pretty dry so I made a couple adjustments:
- Buying USDA Prime brisket for extra marbling
- Using a water tray/pan underneath the grill surface
- Spritzing or mopping hourly up till the stall
- Wrapping in butcher paper at the stall to retain moisture

My brisket has been turning out pretty moist and tender since then though the big disadvantage of Texas crutch or wrap is that it softens the bark

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Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:28 am
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Blackstone T-Bones. Dont do a lot of T-bones really. Overpriced in my opinion. Straight up Rib Eye or Chuck Eye steaks for me if I had my choice. These on the other hand.....tasty!
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Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:42 pm
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Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:05 am
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GeekWithGuns wrote:
What's your thoughts on getting through the stall with big cuts like brisket? I'm still fairly well a rookie when it comes to smoking brisket. My early brisket cooks came out pretty dry so I made a couple adjustments:
- Buying USDA Prime brisket for extra marbling
- Using a water tray/pan underneath the grill surface
- Spritzing or mopping hourly up till the stall
- Wrapping in butcher paper at the stall to retain moisture

My brisket has been turning out pretty moist and tender since then though the big disadvantage of Texas crutch or wrap is that it softens the bark


The stall happens when evaporation from the surface of the meat take energy away from the meat at the same rate the the difference in temperature between the meat and the hot air is trying to put energy in to the meat. When the balance is upset then the stall stops. This can be because the evaporation isn't happening, or because the heat difference changes. Wrapping traps the moisture in, giving you 100% humidity very quickly and locally around the meat, but it softens the bark. The tighter you wrap the less moisture is needed for the to happen and the less you ruin the bark. Using a water pan makes the hot air much more humid so less can evaporate off successfully. Likewise, turning up the temperature means there's more heat energy going in, so the stall takes place at a higher temperature and for less time. There's also some chemical changes that go on, like the doneness of the meat and the breakdown of collagen to gelatin and water that don't reverse when the meat cools again, that also take up some of the energy. I think that's why meat reheats faster than it cooks, but I've never read that that's actually true.

Smoke sticks to cold things and wet things better than hot things and dry things - that's why ice smokes up REALLY fast comapred to salt, which takes HOURS to smoke. It's also why I don't smoke salt - I smoke ice-water, make a saturated salt solution, and then put that to about 170 F and let the water evaporate off and leave me with smoky salt crystals. So, spritzing is a way for us pellet smokers to get more of that smoke onto our meat, especially if we're going to upset the balance by some other way than just letting it sit and absorb as much smoke as possible.

I've been using Choice rather than Prime or the Wagyu that Costco near me want to sell - it's cheaper, and I don't lose 50% of the weight in fat I don't need - only 30-35% (er.. see note below). I separate the two muscles, and take all the surface fat off the point, along with most of the excess from the flat - leaving a quarter to half inch layer on top which I score. This gives me 2 thinner pieces of meat which therefore don't take as long to get up to temperature. It also lets me treat them separately if I need to. I spritz with a water/vinegar mix every hour from hour 2 until its stalls (usually lunchtime-ish), and I wrap with butcher paper when the stall happens, because I don't particularly like a really firm bark on my brisket and think that it's just fine wrapped. Once both muscles are wrapped I bump the heat up to 325 or 350 depending on time, and once the internal temperature of each gets into the 200s I use my temperature probe to poke the meat every half-hour or so. Once it feels like I'm poking warm butter, I pour a kettle of hot water into my cooler, swirl it around a little, dump out the water and put the still-wrapped meat in. I do that for both pieces separately, rather than waiting. The cooler being around 170 and pretty humid means it'll be ready about an hour later, and will still be ready 3.5 hours later. It also means people can request lean or moist end and get what they want.

Basically, I use every trick to reduce the cooking time, and it means I can do a 15 pound brisket by putting it on the smoker after breakfast and still have it ready for dinner. It is, in my opinion, 90% as good as one just left on the smoker for 11 hours, but for 50% of the effort, the vast majority of which would be through the night - my smoker won't run efficiently enough that I can leave it cooking overnight while I sleep. Letting the outside evaporate away enough moisture that the stall stops is perfectly valid, and extremely tasty. It just implies more effort on my part than I'm willing to put in for the gain that I get. But it's a serious fucking debate for me whether I go to Jack's BBQ for the brisket or literally any other place in Seattle when I'm there, because it really is good. Incidentally, Jack's wrap their brisket when it comes off the smoker and is held in the cambros. They wrap in butcher paper, then in saran wrap.

Next time, instead of turning the smoker up, I'll just transfer to the oven. Once it's wrapped it's not going to absorb more smoke, anyway, and it frees up the smoker to do some ribs, too.

Regarding "losing the fat" above - I trim fat off, as I mentioned - not all, but a fair amount. The point has a lot of fat in it, so it doesn't need a coating, and scoring the fat cap on the flat allows the rub to get onto the meat there without dripping off when the fat renders a bit. My trimmed fat doesn't get wasted - it get rendered and stored, and used for searing steaks, since part of the flavor of any meat is also the different ratios of the various fats in there - I think one of the gastro science people in Bellevue has a list of the various fat compositions from various animals. That tri-tip I did a couple of pages back was rubbed with that rendered fat for the sear, too. It takes a long time to get through a few pounds of it, but it's a good trick any time you want to transfer heat and beefy flavor.


Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:36 am
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^ Hell of a write-up. :bow:

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Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:45 am
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^^^ Thanks this is awesome info. Totally agree with Steve. Appreciate the time taken for the well thought out and detailed response. There's a lot to unpack here and will read this through a couple times this weekend.

Interesting take on the use of rendered fat to treat other cuts of meat. Awhile back we bought some beef suet, rendered it, and used it as a baste on ribeye steaks and other cuts for added flavor.

Interesting trick on heating up your cooler before putting the brisket into rest. Will have to try this as I usually just take the wrapped brisket in butcher paper (I also wrap at the stall), wrap it again in towels, and in the cooler it goes.

Based on your comment that the tighter the wrap, the better the results I will have to up my game when wrapping brisket to get as tight a wrap as possible.

I also like the take on finishing the wrapped brisket in the oven to make room for other cooking on the grill/smoker. Our Primo Oval XL has a lot of real estate though it's pretty much entirely consumed by a whole packer brisket. Doing the cook this way frees up the grill for other goodies.

Also thinking about your practice of separating the point and the flat. I might try that next cook as well.

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Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:50 am
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Not that I have a lot of experience smoking briskets, but I have been studying so when I do smoke one I don't fuck it up.....
Good advise from WW there --- I'm more inclined to separate the flat and the point too since anything bigger than ~8# brisket will be difficult to fit on the WSM and I believe that would give me the ability to treat them differently/appropriately as needed.
I will add that Mad Scientist BBQ (Jeremy Yoder) has been trying to figure out Aaron Franklin's secret for his briskets..... it looks like the secret is to add tallow to the brisket when you wrap it. Harry Soo has been doing all sorts of testing along those lines too....
Jeremy uses waygu tallow in this one, but has used rendered fat for most of the other vids he's done....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE2RisA2mHY

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Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:30 am
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JohnMBrowning wrote:
Not that I have a lot of experience smoking briskets, but I have been studying so when I do smoke one I don't fuck it up.....
Good advise from WW there --- I'm more inclined to separate the flat and the point too since anything bigger than ~8# brisket will be difficult to fit on the WSM and I believe that would give me the ability to treat them differently/appropriately as needed.
I will add that Mad Scientist BBQ (Jeremy Yoder) has been trying to figure out Aaron Franklin's secret for his briskets..... it looks like the secret is to add tallow to the brisket when you wrap it. Harry Soo has been doing all sorts of testing along those lines too....
Jeremy uses waygu tallow in this one, but has used rendered fat for most of the other vids he's done....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE2RisA2mHY


Hey JMB I'm pretty much in the same boat as you tweaking my cooking method over time and just trying not to screw things up and turn out a dry brisket :bigsmile:

That is a great video recommendation and learning a ton of things watching it through. Thank you for posting.
Couple things I'm taking away:
- Making certain you have clean smoke before slapping that brisket into the smoker
- Using a 50-50 mix of apple cider vinegar and beer for spritzing/mopping
- Delaying the butcher paper wrap past the stall until the fat cap starts to render
- Use of Wagyu tallow to melt in the smoker and absorb the smoke flavors while the brisket cooks
- When brisket comes off smoker, let it cool to about 180 degrees before it goes in cooler to avoid overcooking
- Drip smoked Wagyu tallow on butcher paper before wrapping
- Let meat rest in cooler for at least 2 hours. He actually recommends to rest overnight but I'm not that patient

Just ordered a can of Wagyu tallow from Amazon for my next cook :thumbsup2:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0881XTCR3?psc=1&smid=A2DJICAEY10PYT&ref_=chk_typ_imgToDp

Probably will smoke another brisket next weekend. We use the leftovers for brisket street tacos, salpicon, breakfast accompaniment to eggs, and so on.

Also found this video by same author which is also a great watch:

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Last edited by GeekWithGuns on Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:11 am, edited 2 times in total.



Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:28 am
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Cooked green chile chicken enchiladas last night. Sorry no pics. Homemade green chile sauce, queso fresco, and shredded chicken for the enchiladas. Ran out of queso fresco so covered the whole tray of enchiladas with some extra shredded pepper jack cheese.

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Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:30 am
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Daughter graduating nursing school the 18th and I will be doing a 20lb brisket,2 pork butts for pulled pork,full pan smoked bake beans and a full pan of queso. That should fill the smoker :thumbsup2: :thumbsup2:


Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:34 am
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GeekWithGuns wrote:
..........

Hey JMB I'm pretty much in the same boat as you tweaking my cooking method over time and just trying not to screw things up and turn out a dry brisket :bigsmile:

That is a great video recommendation and learning a ton of things watching it through. Thank you for posting.
Couple things I'm taking away:
- Making certain you have clean smoke before slapping that brisket into the smoker
- Using a 50-50 mix of apple cider vinegar and beer for spritzing/mopping
- Delaying the butcher paper wrap past the stall until the fat cap starts to render
- Use of Wagyu tallow to melt in the smoker and absorb the smoke flavors while the brisket cooks
- When brisket comes off smoker, let it cool to about 180 degrees before it goes in cooler to avoid overcooking
- Drip smoked Wagyu tallow on butcher paper before wrapping
- Let meat rest in cooler for at least 2 hours. He actually recommends to rest overnight but I'm not that patient

Just ordered a can of Wagyu tallow from Amazon for my next cook :thumbsup2:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0881XTCR3?psc=1&smid=A2DJICAEY10PYT&ref_=chk_typ_imgToDp
............

Yeah - Jeremy has always preached that temp is not the guide - bark formation and fat rendering is the sign of when to wrap. Its only been ~month or two that he has been adding tallow to the wrap --- that seems to be the 'magic' that makes the brisket juicy.... well, perceived juicy the way we think about it. You really went all in getting the waygu tallow --- he's just started doing that - before he was just rendering the trimmings on the smoker - I'm sure the waygu takes to the next level IF it really is waygu.

Check out some of Harry Soo's vids too --- lots of great info and different techniques there too that have been mirroring Jeremy's.

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Sun Jun 06, 2021 4:33 pm
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^ Yes, please.

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