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dreadi
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
Location: Tacoma, Washington Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 Posts: 8411
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I'm loading up some 338 Win Mag with the following:
180gr Nosler Accubond & H4831SC 225gr Nosler Accubond & H4831SC
225gr Barnes TTSX maybe H4831SC or IMR 4064 Barnes doesn't have data for either powder but, Hogdon has data for that weight bullet and both of those powders. Dare I try? Or just get some of the powder they tested with?
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Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:14 pm |
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VantageReloading
Site Supporter
Location: Bigfork, MT (Formerly Sammamish, WA) Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 Posts: 97
Real Name: Michael Hallak
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I wouldn't follow load data for traditional lead bullets and try to apply it to lead free/copper. The bullet weights aren't analogous between the two construction types - you're guaranteed to have higher pressures with the lead free bullet than the hodgdon data deems safe. I would look for data on a nosler E tip bullet for comparison, and definitely work up slow.
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Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:18 pm |
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dreadi
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
Location: Tacoma, Washington Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 Posts: 8411
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Are you saying that I shouldn't use either powder with the Barnes bullets for this caliber?
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Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:44 pm |
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VantageReloading
Site Supporter
Location: Bigfork, MT (Formerly Sammamish, WA) Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 Posts: 97
Real Name: Michael Hallak
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I'm saying that you shouldn't use the published data for that powder - i'd hunt around for load data with a lead free bullet to make it more apples to apples.
_________________Visit http://www.vantagereloading.com/ for custom ammunition tuned for your firearm.
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Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:28 pm |
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PMB
In Memoriam
Joined: Wed Mar 6, 2013 Posts: 12018
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VantageReloading wrote: The bullet weights aren't analogous between the two construction types - you're guaranteed to have higher pressures with the lead free bullet than the hodgdon data deems safe. I am not following this. The weights should be as published- no difference. There would be lower case volume for a lead free projectile, and therefore probable higher pressures.
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Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:12 pm |
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VantageReloading
Site Supporter
Location: Bigfork, MT (Formerly Sammamish, WA) Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 Posts: 97
Real Name: Michael Hallak
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PMB wrote: VantageReloading wrote: The bullet weights aren't analogous between the two construction types - you're guaranteed to have higher pressures with the lead free bullet than the hodgdon data deems safe. I am not following this. The weights should be as published- no difference. There would be lower case volume for a lead free projectile, and therefore probable higher pressures. You're correct - the case volume will be reduced which increases pressures, but also the bearing surface is increased which is directly proportional to pressures. Barnes bullets have some relief groves which make it less of an issue, but my experience is that the pressure still builds greater than a lead core bullet. Here's some narrative that includes more details that are better written than I attempted: https://www.americanrifleman.org/articl ... e-bullets/Of note, nosler recommends not exceeding mid loads when using lead free bullets.
_________________Visit http://www.vantagereloading.com/ for custom ammunition tuned for your firearm.
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Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:56 am |
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PMB
In Memoriam
Joined: Wed Mar 6, 2013 Posts: 12018
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VantageReloading wrote: PMB wrote: VantageReloading wrote: The bullet weights aren't analogous between the two construction types - you're guaranteed to have higher pressures with the lead free bullet than the hodgdon data deems safe. I am not following this. The weights should be as published- no difference. There would be lower case volume for a lead free projectile, and therefore probable higher pressures. You're correct - the case volume will be reduced which increases pressures, but also the bearing surface is increased which is directly proportional to pressures. Barnes bullets have some relief groves which make it less of an issue, but my experience is that the pressure still builds greater than a lead core bullet. Here's some narrative that includes more details that are better written than I attempted: https://www.americanrifleman.org/articl ... e-bullets/Of note, nosler recommends not exceeding mid loads when using lead free bullets. Good information! I had never considered the increased bearing surface/friction. Thank you sir!
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Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:35 am |
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VantageReloading
Site Supporter
Location: Bigfork, MT (Formerly Sammamish, WA) Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 Posts: 97
Real Name: Michael Hallak
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You bet! It's certainly my pleasure.
_________________Visit http://www.vantagereloading.com/ for custom ammunition tuned for your firearm.
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Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:28 am |
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dreadi
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
Location: Tacoma, Washington Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 Posts: 8411
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I talked to a couple guys at the range today and now what you've said make more sense. I didn't understand what you were saying earlier. Nosler has not published any e tip data for 338 Win Mag on their website. Anyone have that in a book?
So I'm still wondering what powder to get for the Barnes that's not temperature sensitive.
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Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:15 pm |
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dreadi
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
Location: Tacoma, Washington Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 Posts: 8411
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Oldandcranky1 wrote: Believe it Varget is listed at the Hodgden web site. 225 gr data below:
Hodgdon Varget .338" 3.340"
52.0 Start 2,481 41,500 CUP
57.5 Max 2,680 52,700 CUP That's just it.....I was asking about using the Hodgon data for 225gr with the Barnes TTSX. Barnes does not list that powder in their data. I'm thinking I may go with RL17.
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Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:06 pm |
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dreadi
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
Location: Tacoma, Washington Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 Posts: 8411
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Derp..."Give Barnes a call." Why didn't I think of that?
Load Manual 4 has TSX bullets which load the same as the TTSX
H4831SC 63gr-71gr 2515 fps-2718 fps
71gr is 102% compressed and he said I could go up to 110% compressed but about 109% is where they start seeing bullet rebound. It's where the bullet is pushed out due to too much pressure in the case after it's seated. So make a load and come back in 30 minutes and see if it pushed out.
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Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:59 am |
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dreadi
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
Location: Tacoma, Washington Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 Posts: 8411
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Still working this out. I've determined that the 180gr loaded to max will group just like the Barnes 225gr. Because I want to shoot 400yd+ with this rifle, decided to go with the 225hr Barnes at 70.4gr of H4831. I'm getting nearly identical hits between 70.1, 70.4 and 70.7gr so I'm taking the middle road. At about 2600fps I'm getting a 4.7 inch drop from 100 to 200yds with a 50yd zero. I know I said 400+ is my intended use but, I've working out loads for a couple weeks and these are the distances I use.
The 180gr doesn't have nearly the same BC but, I can push it to nearly 3000fps and that makes the predicted drop about half compared to the Barnes 225. With the Barnes I'm pushing around 2600fps.
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Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:59 pm |
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rainyday
Location: marysville,wash Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 Posts: 417
Real Name: steve
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I load the 210 nosler partition with imr 4350 and get 2912 fps and it is very capable to 500 yds on elk and very accurate. I have used this load since the late 1980's
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Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:17 pm |
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dreadi
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
Location: Tacoma, Washington Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 Posts: 8411
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24" barrel? You've got me interested.
Today I got to aspecial place and dialed in the dope provided my Vortex LRBC for the 225gr loads. 200yds...ding...400yds...ding...570yds...hmm Again......hmm Barrel cool off. I had to shoot at the top of the steel to get a hit. Checked in later with Vortex and I should have made a couple more 1/10 MRAD up. Got a few hits at 570 though.
I'm going to try out some more 180gr loads since I have most of a box of bullets left.
_________________BLACK HAMMER ARMSBuy A Suppressor http://www.silencershop.com/blackhammerarmsType 7 Class 2 SOT NFA Dealer 1911 Pistolsmithing Firearm Refinishing GLOCK Certified Armorer CMMG Authorized Dealer NEMO Arms Authorized Dealer http://www.blackhammerarms.comhttp://www.facebook.com/blackhammerarmshttps://www.instagram.com/blackhammerarms/
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Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:14 pm |
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rainyday
Location: marysville,wash Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 Posts: 417
Real Name: steve
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yes my barrel is 24 inch. for both of the 338 wm I have owned, there more accurate with flat base bullets. accurate arms 4350 and imr 4831 are both great choices for me. I also use the hornaday oal gauge to dial in my loads
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Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:15 pm |
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