The basic premise starts with two tuning forks that are tuned to the same frequency

Smack one tuning fork to get it vibrating (if it's in the audible range you can hear it). Now, hold the other tuning fork next to it and it will start vibrating too. Congratulations, you've just sent a wireless signal

It all builds on that. Get two people with radios tuned to the same frequencies and the signal can go back and forth. Get a group of them and everyone can hear everyone else

The encryption is like the enigma machine. As long as everyone listening has the same enigma box and knows the code then the signal will come through as something understandable

The ham licence, and three letter agencies, come into play when you start operating on frequencies outside the usual walky-talky type stuff and at powers higher than those too

I would, and would be interested in a few. I already need radios for come when snowmobiling, so why not many birds with the stone? I am woefully ignorant however...

First impression is C. However, and this leads to my range question earlier, I’m a bit of a loner. I know there’s a few Wagunners up North here, think Marysville area. Realistically, I won’t be doing any tacops, knowing what’s going on in Tumwater isn’t really my worry either.
If we were to establish some frequencies that wagunners could tune to, that’d be a huge step in the right direction. Let a guy start with a local(ish) radio to perhaps group up, maybe get some intel on local issues, be it natural or social disorder. If a guy get comfortable with that, he can upgrade and be the ranged contact for reaching further out...

That make sense?

What real ranges, in miles, can a person expect with some of these radios with and w/o some of the antenna upgrades?

That's the idea behind manageable zones, or banks, of frequencies. You don't have a list of 300 frequencies, you have a list of 16 channels that are ALL for King Co., and other 16 channels that are ALL for waguns, another 16 channels that are ALL Pierce co, etc.

Range is highly variable... Something as simple as a radio on the belt using a spkr mic vs in the hand can greatly change the distance you can communicate.

A line of sight calculation, for 2 people, both 6' tall, would equate to about 8 miles. Now, that range could be significantly greater, in the case of a radio talking to a repeater that's on a tower, and I've worked repeaters from portables from 30+ miles away.... That could go down to a mile or less if you're in severely rough terrain, or in subterranean tunnels or in basements...

Digital is an advantage because you either have perfect quality audio, or none. P25 has actually proven to have a greater ability to monitor than conventional analog, as the human ear will pick up noise, whereas the radio receiver can pick up the data bits, and reconstruct the signal to a certain point, using error correction.

This is where antenna design comes into play. You can build an antenna that you can literally throw into a tree, and start talking 40 miles away, with just your portable, but that's a little outside the scope of this discussion, IMO. That's more of a general amateur radio discussion.

On VHF, my simplex record is 180 something miles.. Point to point... using a 45W mobile radio...Yup, almost 200 miles... No repeaters..

There are people that have talked 2x that range with a similar setup... and under ideal conditions, you can even do that same 180 something miles from a portable, but you're not gonna do that here in the PNW, atmospheric conditions just won't allow that to happen.

That’s where the programming comes into play, setting up the Banks?

I’m trying to keep it realistic. Of course I want the coolest, bestest radio and comms out there, but I just don’t believe I’d use it to its full potential. Much like my ARs, sure I’d love a Daniel Defense, Battle Ready, Combat Rifle. But am I ever really going to be in a True, Combat Situation? Doubtful.

Back to the radios, my objective would be to monitor some ‘Authority’ type channels, Disaster monitoring etc... and be able to reach ‘like-minded’ guys within, say a 15-20mi radius. My thinking is, if I can reach that far, and the next guy can reach that far, we could encompass nearly the whole of Waguns within 3-4 people... am I completely off base?

It can be as simple as that, but the reality is, it's much more complex. I've worked with this stuff for decades, but I remember when I started out it was like looking at Latin.. I could pick out a few things that kinda look a little familiar but everything else was .. well.. Latin... hah... and I already had a decent grasp on radio. For someone who is coming in from the dark, shoving CPS in their face is counterproductive, as they'll just get upset, and end up not wanting to deal with it.

The idea is, make a codeplug (programming) that will work for most people, then they can use that, or make a couple of tweaks to it. A codeplug to cover a large area can take weeks to develop. WSP has taken YEARS to develop theirs and they're still tweaking it...

The idea is, you know what channel 4 is... everyone's channel 4 is the same, and when to use it... You know what zone 3 channel 7 is, and that it's encrypted without having to know all the details of how and why, just that you can talk and no one else can hear you..

The alternative is you saying , in the clear, 'switch to MURS3' or 'push 4652' and everyone with a scanner within 20 miles can hear you say that...

Each radio can be programmed with an ID so when someone keys up, people know who it is..if you have the right programming...



I get what you mean, but it's not a matter of quality, it's a matter of capability.

A $2500 DD will get you to 100m the same that a $500 home built AR pistol will.... But you're not gonna take that AR pistol out to 600M with a Bushnell TRS-25.

Sure, you can say you don't wanna spent $2500 for a DD, and I wouldn't blame you, and if you're sticking to a SD AR, 100m is all you need and your home built gun works great for that. But if you need to hit targets at 600m, you're ponying up the money for something with better capability, a decent scope, etc.



Easily doable for the most part, with the exception that most day to day public safety operations in high population areas use a trunked system. The fed interop channels would only be used in major disasters, for the most part. You wouldn't be listening to SPD with that radio, but in times of non-emergency, you can use your phone to listen anyway...



Theoretically, works great. Reality is, it's gonna be like herding cats.

My plan will include non-encrypted channels, so people without the snazzy radios can still talk, just not critical stuff.

Amateur radio really opens up a lot of options. A repeater would allow one user with a handheld, in Everett, to talk to another user with a handheld, in Tumwater.... as an example, using a wide area repeater....

But, not all repeaters will be online in the event of a disaster.. So they can't be relied on, but are a good resource to keep in mind.

The area in dark red is the estimated footprint of a single repeater, on Buck Mountain, just to give an example....Anyone in that range will hear the repeater... You may/may not be able to talk into the repeater depending on your location, radio, power output,, etc..

10-4

I’m getting there. Thanks for the patience.

I'm lost with all this tech stuff. TW? Just take my CC and make me something that works.
Lol...just kidding, I have two cans and string that stretches to Steve's house.
I'm good.

Thank you for posting this thread TW. I'm learning alot. Been years since I used a SINCGARS, all I ever knew of comms (11B).

Man, I WISH I had 500 bucks to spend on a rig.

I got a Baofeng UV-82hp to play with and learn on. No CHIRP, I've learned how to program it. Got several local repeaters I'm listening too. Repeaterbook.com is awesome. No hope of encryption with this, of course.

I understand CTCSS codes can be used in simplex too, but this just avoids interference from others on the same frequency, scanners see right through that too?

Am I to understand, a scanner just rapidly goes through the whole range, 136-174MHz in VHF for example, and all possible PL codes, locks onto your signal, and that's it? This device is as commonly available as cheap HTs are?

Can encrypted signals come and go through repeaters and remain encrypted?

Are there any Icom or Yaesu or other....you know...less cost prohibitive HTs that can be encrypted in some way?

I like the idea of a comms plan among us good guys. I want to develop that with my friends too. At the very least knowing which repeaters we'll want to talk on in which areas.

TW, what is your opinion of the TRI PRC-148 & 152 clones? Guys are saying they're rock solid and waterproof, but are they any more secure than any other HT like my Baofeng?

Guys, getting the license is easy. Just do it. Did my test last Sunday at a ARRL club in Tacoma. Bit of a delay, and drive-in due to Wuhan virus protocols, but it was fine. Hope to see my call pop up in the DB soon.

I just searched ARRL for the club closest to me, emailed them and went from there. They were very helpful.

I just read alot, and did practice tests on hamstudy.org till I was passing 2-3 a day for a couple weeks.

You're in for a treat. Those radios were designed to be operated by 18 y/o privates who didn't know shit about radios... This is a whole new ball of wax.. although you can set up the radios to be pretty simple, there is no -10 for ham stuff...



A radio uses PL/CTCSS as a gate or check, if the radio doesn't hear it, it doesn't open the gate to let the audio in. Your radio can be told to not do that check, so it will hear everything.





Kinda, it doesn't need the PL, as mentioned above, and it scans extremely fast. So fast that, without knowing WHAT band you're on, I can grab your frequency in a matter of seconds after you key up. Radio scanners that are usable on today's trunked systems are not cheap, in the $500 range.. SDRs are dirt cheap though, less than $30, and are a good step into the hobby of monitoring things.



There is legality and there's physical capability. some analog only repeaters can pass digital signals, although usually not well. It depends entirely on the equipment used. Some repeaters use commercial grade equipment that can run in digital or analog mode, and it's not an issue. Some are tuned for analog only operation and due to electrical limitations, won't pass digital or encrypted audio. I will tell you that the odds of finding an analog repeater that can pass digital signals, is slim to none.

You can set up your own repeater though, that can cover a decent area, for not much money (couple hundred bucks)


Voice inversion, as mentioned, which isn't encryption really, is about the only thing you'll find in a less expensive option. There are much older radios out there that support encryption, but once you factor in the programming, the keyloader (not cheap) and all the other misc expenses for supporting a radio that's been discontinued for 30 years, it's not worth the added expense to get such a low level product.




It's always a mixed bag. A public comms plan means someone can access your data...



They are not secure. They're basically a baofeng in a different enclosure. I've seen quite a few companies put out clones, but none that I'd buy. They look cool, but you have to remember their target audience.. airsoft.





roughly two weeks.



Yup, it's pretty simple, and you can learn a lot....

I had a scanner back in the day, then a trunk tracker when they started trunked frequencies.
Had to program dozens of channels.

Nowadays if I get a work call and they need me, they just call me on the phone.
Seems to work pretty well.

I carry a personal phone, and a work phone.
Don't always carry the personal phone.
Always carry the work phone.

Just tell me what to get and what to do.
I don't have time to do all the research, I have trust.

-Jason-

This is great info, thank you!

Yeah the PRC-148 clones,I was turned on to by some very serious minded shooters. Airsoft is for kids, but ironically that's one legitimate place to buy those, jkarmy airsoft website. We all felt like tools even lookin' at it! HA!

So the only advantage to those it seems, as many report, is they are bomb proof. They're surviving treatment that would destroy mine.

That's something, just not sure if worth 200+ bucks. I do need durability though.

Where do you find good coax that'll mate up with a Baofeng?

And how would one hook that cable up to an old TV antenna on a roof?

I'm thinking such a setup would boost RX/TX range dramatically.

It's funny, as I'm listening to a net on a repeater in Seattle, I think the reception on this cheap thing is pretty good....and then I remember I have nothing really to compare it too. No idea yet if they'll hear me when I transmit.

Sort of like new gun folk who say "hey, this Taurus is solid, yo", because they have no Glock or Sig to compare it to.

It is a blast learning all this.

So once more of us get on air, we can set up nets, decide which repeater we'll talk on and when.

Also looking forward to getting out in the field and doing some training with the simplex aspect. Secure or not, I feel this is a huge asset.

I guess to go secure, we could all learn Klingon, or Esperanto.

Get good quality LMR240UF or LMR400UF... and good quality connectors... and a good crimper.. and make your own. It's considerably cheaper, and a skill that comes in handy.



Antennas need to be designed to be resonant at a specific frequency, a TV antenna will not be good to transmit on with your baofeng, but will increase rx range dramatically. A dual band antenna to mount on your roof is cheap, if you wanna go that route.





There are a couple factors for rx. Sensitivity, and selectivity. They're usually exclusive. The more sensitive the front end, the less able it is to reject other signals... likewise, the more ability it has to exclude other signals, the less sensitive it is. The cheap radios are pretty shit across the board, and let just about everything through, and their spurious emissions (transmitting where it shouldn't) are horrendous.







There are existing nets. Nothing would prevent you from joining ARES in your county, as well. That will get you a state emergency worker card that qualifies you for Glock blue label and S&W first responder programs, FYI



Look up 'field day'.... You'd have a blast... field expedient antennas are simple; some involving nothing more than coax with the end stripped off and tossed into a tree, hence the suggestion to get the tools to make your own cables.



Qapla'!

So I take it you'd like this shirt of mine: