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It is currently Wed Apr 24, 2024 7:31 am
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Bug out or shelter in place?
Bug out or shelter in place?
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CQBgopher
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Location: WA/MT Joined: Thu Sep 6, 2012 Posts: 8285
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Mercy wrote: dan360 wrote: Benja455 wrote: Okay...keep up the "adventure riding" SHTF fantasy. Considering motorcycles are the transportation tools of choice in remote areas around the world, and the KLR in particular has logged many miles in pursuit of circumnavigating the globe, I wouldn't necessarily call it a fantasy. Quote: Watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OJLCFMgg6w - up to the 15 second mark there's no wind noise and you can hear the motor rumbling...not even close to "near silent." I've been around plenty of dual sports - they make noise and if there's no other traffic/ambient noise (which is why you'd be using one, right?), you can hear them from a distance - maybe not "miles away" as I said - but far enough. Motorcycle exhaust can be made quiet. The piston knock and cam chain noise on a big thumper is hard to get rid of completely, but there are ways to mitigate it. Quote: Again, you didn't address the other salient points I made about this issue. Protection is certainly is a major problem and the lack of a spare tire is also significant. Protection from what? Bullets? Crashing? The elements? If it is truly SHTF, the manuverability could trump all...an armored truck isn't much good if it's stuck in one place. As far as lack of a spare tire, are you referring to the spare on most vehicles that takes an unecessarily long time to access, requires special service tools for access that could be lost, or are the 'donut' variety that aren't much better than a roll of Harbor Freight duct tape? You can make a motorcycle tire "run flat" and packing tubes, repair kits, and spare tires is not overly difficult. Quote: Have you ever tried to ride with one hand (your other hand might be needed to shoot, use your phone/radio, etc)? I can certainly drive a vehicle pretty well with just one hand. I venture a bet that I can ride my bike with no hands much better than you can drive with no hands. We can practice that if you'd like to......I-5 across the bridge by UW if you feel ducky. Quote: As an entry level bike, the KLR doesn't have some really basic features - like a low fuel light - good luck with that as you're driving aggressively and avoiding Lord Humongous. Did you just seriously advocate for a low fuel llght on a bike? Um.........I don't know what to say to that.... Quote: If you're serious about this idea - I really suggest you try it. My brother - an experienced rider - had the same over-confident attitude about this scenario until he and some friends went out for a weekend with their bug out bags...they couldn't pack as much as they thought they could... Please elaborate on what they couldn't carry that they thought they needed. Quote: they were trapped in Friday rush hour traffic with everyone else... Because it wasn't a panic SHTF situation where a bike can hop a jersey barrier, a curb, go down off the hill across the cloverleaf and be drug underneath a guardrail..... Quote: communicating was challenging... ???? There are ultra affordable com systems for motorcycle helmets...there are also these really cool things called hand signals, light signals, etc. Quote: a road crew turned them around because a road they wanted to take had gravel all over it from construction (liability issue the DOT wasn't willing to take)... I've never heard of that before...please elaborate. But again, we're talking imaginary SHTF here, not weekend pretender cruise. Quote: another guy blew out a tire, which was impossible to replace in a rural area on a weekend. What? Why? Oh, lemme guess...dual sport superstars either forgot to pack one or never learned how to do it with two sticks and some lighter fluid. Quote: It rained and got unseasonably cold that evening. So. One word. Klim. Quote: It was all a mess. Sounds to me like they were the mess... Quote: I'm not advocating for a decked out Toyota 80-series with a 6 inch lift and lockers...I'm just saying - the idea of buzzing around on a dual sport during a SHTF situation is comical at best but is likely to get someone killed at worst. Everyone is entitled to their opinion......mine is the FZJ is pretty darn heavy and underpowered once all the Expedtion Portal fanboy trim is installed, but the e-lockers are pretty cool. Still can't go under a woods road gate. Or over, depending on the gate. Well-written, Dan. I am amused by the "can't ride one-handed" BS from someone who apparently doesn't ride. (I rode to Sturgis this year. Much of it was done one-handed to rest my left hand. You can even ride a motorcycle NO-handed except for that throttle thing...it's that stable. Ignoramus.) I'd also be interested to know why Benja is talking about hearing a bike against a silent background...in a theoretical SHTF, with the roads packed, aren't the roads going to be noisy as hell with people honking, revving, yelling, etc.? There are those who understand the freedom of two wheels, and there are those most comfortable in their cages. Don't expect much of a rebuttal from Benja, this is another example of his "I know everything...the end" posting. Chances are he'll only come back to prove this post incorrect. But then again, he *did* advocate for a low fuel warning light over ability to split lanes, soooooooo.........
_________________ Rara Temporum Felicitas Ubi Sentire Quae Velis Et Quod Velis Dicere Licet. ― Tacitus "Well, nobody's perfect." ― Osgood Fielding III
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Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:10 pm |
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FattyKrack
Site Supporter
Location: Bainbridge Island Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 Posts: 1684
Real Name: Matt
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dan360 wrote: Mercy wrote: dan360 wrote: Benja455 wrote: Okay...keep up the "adventure riding" SHTF fantasy. Considering motorcycles are the transportation tools of choice in remote areas around the world, and the KLR in particular has logged many miles in pursuit of circumnavigating the globe, I wouldn't necessarily call it a fantasy. Quote: Watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OJLCFMgg6w - up to the 15 second mark there's no wind noise and you can hear the motor rumbling...not even close to "near silent." I've been around plenty of dual sports - they make noise and if there's no other traffic/ambient noise (which is why you'd be using one, right?), you can hear them from a distance - maybe not "miles away" as I said - but far enough. Motorcycle exhaust can be made quiet. The piston knock and cam chain noise on a big thumper is hard to get rid of completely, but there are ways to mitigate it. Quote: Again, you didn't address the other salient points I made about this issue. Protection is certainly is a major problem and the lack of a spare tire is also significant. Protection from what? Bullets? Crashing? The elements? If it is truly SHTF, the manuverability could trump all...an armored truck isn't much good if it's stuck in one place. As far as lack of a spare tire, are you referring to the spare on most vehicles that takes an unecessarily long time to access, requires special service tools for access that could be lost, or are the 'donut' variety that aren't much better than a roll of Harbor Freight duct tape? You can make a motorcycle tire "run flat" and packing tubes, repair kits, and spare tires is not overly difficult. Quote: Have you ever tried to ride with one hand (your other hand might be needed to shoot, use your phone/radio, etc)? I can certainly drive a vehicle pretty well with just one hand. I venture a bet that I can ride my bike with no hands much better than you can drive with no hands. We can practice that if you'd like to......I-5 across the bridge by UW if you feel ducky. Quote: As an entry level bike, the KLR doesn't have some really basic features - like a low fuel light - good luck with that as you're driving aggressively and avoiding Lord Humongous. Did you just seriously advocate for a low fuel llght on a bike? Um.........I don't know what to say to that.... Quote: If you're serious about this idea - I really suggest you try it. My brother - an experienced rider - had the same over-confident attitude about this scenario until he and some friends went out for a weekend with their bug out bags...they couldn't pack as much as they thought they could... Please elaborate on what they couldn't carry that they thought they needed. Quote: they were trapped in Friday rush hour traffic with everyone else... Because it wasn't a panic SHTF situation where a bike can hop a jersey barrier, a curb, go down off the hill across the cloverleaf and be drug underneath a guardrail..... Quote: communicating was challenging... ???? There are ultra affordable com systems for motorcycle helmets...there are also these really cool things called hand signals, light signals, etc. Quote: a road crew turned them around because a road they wanted to take had gravel all over it from construction (liability issue the DOT wasn't willing to take)... I've never heard of that before...please elaborate. But again, we're talking imaginary SHTF here, not weekend pretender cruise. Quote: another guy blew out a tire, which was impossible to replace in a rural area on a weekend. What? Why? Oh, lemme guess...dual sport superstars either forgot to pack one or never learned how to do it with two sticks and some lighter fluid. Quote: It rained and got unseasonably cold that evening. So. One word. Klim. Quote: It was all a mess. Sounds to me like they were the mess... Quote: I'm not advocating for a decked out Toyota 80-series with a 6 inch lift and lockers...I'm just saying - the idea of buzzing around on a dual sport during a SHTF situation is comical at best but is likely to get someone killed at worst. Everyone is entitled to their opinion......mine is the FZJ is pretty darn heavy and underpowered once all the Expedtion Portal fanboy trim is installed, but the e-lockers are pretty cool. Still can't go under a woods road gate. Or over, depending on the gate. Well-written, Dan. I am amused by the "can't ride one-handed" BS from someone who apparently doesn't ride. (I rode to Sturgis this year. Much of it was done one-handed to rest my left hand. You can even ride a motorcycle NO-handed except for that throttle thing...it's that stable. Ignoramus.) I'd also be interested to know why Benja is talking about hearing a bike against a silent background...in a theoretical SHTF, with the roads packed, aren't the roads going to be noisy as hell with people honking, revving, yelling, etc.? There are those who understand the freedom of two wheels, and there are those most comfortable in their cages. Don't expect much of a rebuttal from Benja, this is another example of his "I know everything...the end" posting. Chances are he'll only come back to prove this post incorrect. But then again, he *did* advocate for a low fuel warning light over ability to split lanes, soooooooo......... lol. I did run out of fuel the other week. Dipped the bike over and found another 60 miles on a whole gallon stuck on other side. :)
_________________ "Using my gun to see at night, and sleeping with my flashlight" - atmosphere
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Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:32 pm |
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Grantizzle
Site Supporter
Location: Camano Island, Wa Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 Posts: 987
Real Name: Grant
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FattyKrack wrote: lol. I did run out of fuel the other week. Dipped the bike over and found another 60 miles on a whole gallon stuck on other side. :) SECRET RESERVE!
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Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:33 pm |
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CQBgopher
Site Supporter
Location: WA/MT Joined: Thu Sep 6, 2012 Posts: 8285
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Grantizzle wrote: FattyKrack wrote: lol. I did run out of fuel the other week. Dipped the bike over and found another 60 miles on a whole gallon stuck on other side. :) SECRET RESERVE! Yer darn skippy!
_________________ Rara Temporum Felicitas Ubi Sentire Quae Velis Et Quod Velis Dicere Licet. ― Tacitus "Well, nobody's perfect." ― Osgood Fielding III
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Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:43 pm |
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Benja455
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Location: White Center Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 Posts: 6489
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I admit defeat - you guys have won this crucially important interweb argument. Soooooo, just to be clear - you guys would ride through Ferguson, MO ("widespread civil unrest" per the OP) on a KLR right now? Let me know when you're hitting the road. dan360 wrote: Don't expect much of a rebuttal from Benja, this is another example of his "I know everything...the end" posting. Dan - please shoot me a PM with some examples. If you can do so - I am happy to apologize.
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Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:28 pm |
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CQBgopher
Site Supporter
Location: WA/MT Joined: Thu Sep 6, 2012 Posts: 8285
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Benja455 wrote: I admit defeat - you guys have won this crucially important interweb argument. Soooooo, just to be clear - you guys would ride through Ferguson, MO ("widespread civil unrest" per the OP) on a KLR right now? Let me know when you're hitting the road. dan360 wrote: Don't expect much of a rebuttal from Benja, this is another example of his "I know everything...the end" posting. Dan - please shoot me a PM with some examples. If you can do so - I am happy to apologize. Yes....actually I would ride through Ferguson, MO on a bike today, yesterday, or tomorrow. What is the point there? Nice rebuttal by the way. Do you ride? Just asking. No need to PM anything, we can all read here.
_________________ Rara Temporum Felicitas Ubi Sentire Quae Velis Et Quod Velis Dicere Licet. ― Tacitus "Well, nobody's perfect." ― Osgood Fielding III
Last edited by CQBgopher on Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:29 pm |
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Liet-kynes
Site Supporter
Location: Monroe, WA Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 Posts: 1364
Real Name: Dustin
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Buggin in. I haven't collected all this emergency shit just to leave it behind.
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Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:30 pm |
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Benja455
Site Supporter
Location: White Center Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 Posts: 6489
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dan360 wrote: Yes....actually I would ride through Ferguson, MO on a bike today, yesterday, or tomorrow. What is the point there? Okay, cool. I'm glad we've got that cleared up. I certainly wouldn't. My point is - it seems you have a much higher tolerance for (unnecessary?) risk than I do (and I suspect most other people, as well). Different strokes for different folks...or as the kids say these days - you do you. dan360 wrote: Nice rebuttal by the way. Do you ride? Just asking. No need to PM anything, we can all read here. Not a rebuttal - total honesty and an attempt at greater self-awareness...but you've ignored my genuine request for some examples of those posts, so I'll assume you were just lashing out and move on (don't worry, I forgive you ). Again, if you have some examples - please share them. Anyway, to answer your question - no, I don't ride. Used to ride little dirt bikes and ATVs around my grandparents farm as a kid - but nothing on paved roads. Not my thing.
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Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:37 pm |
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CQBgopher
Site Supporter
Location: WA/MT Joined: Thu Sep 6, 2012 Posts: 8285
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Benja455 wrote: dan360 wrote: Yes....actually I would ride through Ferguson, MO on a bike today, yesterday, or tomorrow. What is the point there? Okay, cool. I'm glad we've got that cleared up. I certainly wouldn't. My point is - it seems you have a much higher tolerance for (unnecessary?) risk than I do (and I suspect most other people, as well). Different strokes for different folks...or as the kids say these days - you do you. dan360 wrote: Nice rebuttal by the way. Do you ride? Just asking. No need to PM anything, we can all read here. Not a rebuttal - total honesty and an attempt at greater self-awareness...but you've ignored my genuine request for some examples of those posts, so I'll assume you were just lashing out and move on (don't worry, I forgive you ). Again, if you have some examples - please share them. Anyway, to answer your question - no, I don't ride. Used to ride little dirt bikes and ATVs around my grandparents farm as a kid - but nothing on paved roads. Not my thing. You're coming across with the same superiority complex prevalent in ignorant anti-gun folks who see firearms enthusiasts as neanderthals, even though they don't know much--if anything--about firearms. The condescension and smarmy undertones will be ignored, for those might be ban bait and any insubordination before 31DEC2014 would violate a promise I made to MadPick. **EDIT** Why would a motorcycle in Ferguson, MO be such a bad idea? Situational awareness would dictate avoiding the dangerous area(s) as much as possible. This would include via motorcycle, automobile, aircraft, foot travel, bicycle, unicycle, stilts, skateboard, etc. To ride a bike right into the protest would be no more idiotic than driving an MRAP in there and saying "SCUUUUUUZZZE MEEEE.......MAKE WAY PLEEEEZ"
_________________ Rara Temporum Felicitas Ubi Sentire Quae Velis Et Quod Velis Dicere Licet. ― Tacitus "Well, nobody's perfect." ― Osgood Fielding III
Last edited by CQBgopher on Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:22 pm |
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 52067
Real Name: Steve
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_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:24 pm |
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golddigger14s
Site Supporter
Location: Faxon, OK Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 Posts: 17822
Real Name: Chuck
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Maybe come together as a "community" ? Stop the stupid arguing about politics, and become part of a "Mutual Assistance Group"?
ETA: Oh, and the vehicle debate. As a MAG, having different types of vehicles can be an asset? There is no one vehicle that will be a perfect solution, but a variety might be an asset. Transport, fast attack, and recon? "Divided, we fall"?
_________________ "The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson "Evil often triumphs, but never conquers." Joseph Roux
Last edited by golddigger14s on Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:38 pm |
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CQBgopher
Site Supporter
Location: WA/MT Joined: Thu Sep 6, 2012 Posts: 8285
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golddigger14s wrote: Maybe come together as a "community" ? Stop the stupid arguing about politics, and become part of a "Mutual Assistance Group"? Already doing that. It's a great idea, too.
_________________ Rara Temporum Felicitas Ubi Sentire Quae Velis Et Quod Velis Dicere Licet. ― Tacitus "Well, nobody's perfect." ― Osgood Fielding III
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Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:43 pm |
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Benja455
Site Supporter
Location: White Center Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 Posts: 6489
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dan360 wrote: Benja455 wrote: dan360 wrote: Yes....actually I would ride through Ferguson, MO on a bike today, yesterday, or tomorrow. What is the point there? Okay, cool. I'm glad we've got that cleared up. I certainly wouldn't. My point is - it seems you have a much higher tolerance for (unnecessary?) risk than I do (and I suspect most other people, as well). Different strokes for different folks...or as the kids say these days - you do you. dan360 wrote: Nice rebuttal by the way. Do you ride? Just asking. No need to PM anything, we can all read here. Not a rebuttal - total honesty and an attempt at greater self-awareness...but you've ignored my genuine request for some examples of those posts, so I'll assume you were just lashing out and move on (don't worry, I forgive you ). Again, if you have some examples - please share them. Anyway, to answer your question - no, I don't ride. Used to ride little dirt bikes and ATVs around my grandparents farm as a kid - but nothing on paved roads. Not my thing. You're coming across with the same superiority complex prevalent in ignorant anti-gun folks who see firearms enthusiasts as neanderthals, even though they don't know much--if anything--about firearms. The condescension and smarmy undertones will be ignored, for those might be ban bait and any insubordination before 31DEC2014 would violate a promise I made to MadPick. **EDIT** Why would a motorcycle in Ferguson, MO be such a bad idea? Situational awareness would dictate avoiding the dangerous area(s) as much as possible. This would include via motorcycle, automobile, aircraft, foot travel, bicycle, unicycle, stilts, skateboard, etc. To ride a bike right into the protest would be no more idiotic than driving an MRAP in there and saying "SCUUUUUUZZZE MEEEE.......MAKE WAY PLEEEEZ" I'm sorry. No condescension was intended. I feel like you're totally misreading my posts and adding some emotions that simply aren't there (and maybe I'm not grasping yours)...so I'm just going to move on.
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Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:50 pm |
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CQBgopher
Site Supporter
Location: WA/MT Joined: Thu Sep 6, 2012 Posts: 8285
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Benja455 wrote: dan360 wrote: Benja455 wrote: dan360 wrote: Yes....actually I would ride through Ferguson, MO on a bike today, yesterday, or tomorrow. What is the point there? Okay, cool. I'm glad we've got that cleared up. I certainly wouldn't. My point is - it seems you have a much higher tolerance for (unnecessary?) risk than I do (and I suspect most other people, as well). Different strokes for different folks...or as the kids say these days - you do you. dan360 wrote: Nice rebuttal by the way. Do you ride? Just asking. No need to PM anything, we can all read here. Not a rebuttal - total honesty and an attempt at greater self-awareness...but you've ignored my genuine request for some examples of those posts, so I'll assume you were just lashing out and move on (don't worry, I forgive you ). Again, if you have some examples - please share them. Anyway, to answer your question - no, I don't ride. Used to ride little dirt bikes and ATVs around my grandparents farm as a kid - but nothing on paved roads. Not my thing. You're coming across with the same superiority complex prevalent in ignorant anti-gun folks who see firearms enthusiasts as neanderthals, even though they don't know much--if anything--about firearms. The condescension and smarmy undertones will be ignored, for those might be ban bait and any insubordination before 31DEC2014 would violate a promise I made to MadPick. **EDIT** Why would a motorcycle in Ferguson, MO be such a bad idea? Situational awareness would dictate avoiding the dangerous area(s) as much as possible. This would include via motorcycle, automobile, aircraft, foot travel, bicycle, unicycle, stilts, skateboard, etc. To ride a bike right into the protest would be no more idiotic than driving an MRAP in there and saying "SCUUUUUUZZZE MEEEE.......MAKE WAY PLEEEEZ" I'm sorry. No condescension was intended. I feel like you're totally misreading my posts and adding some emotions that simply aren't there (and maybe I'm not grasping yours)...so I'm just going to move on. Are you going to explain your previously posted comments in more detail, and elaborate on your statements I politely asked about like a week ago? Or are you done, and feel this is all beneath you? *edited for spelling....I'm not an intellectual*
_________________ Rara Temporum Felicitas Ubi Sentire Quae Velis Et Quod Velis Dicere Licet. ― Tacitus "Well, nobody's perfect." ― Osgood Fielding III
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Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:52 pm |
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 52067
Real Name: Steve
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Dan, I think you're missing the de-escalation part of this conversation. Not every debate needs to be a fight to the death.
_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:53 pm |
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