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Reloading question
https://www.waguns.org/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=80891		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  leadcounsel [ Tue May 02, 2017 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Reloading question
I've got several boxes of unknown origination ammo, and some that is clearly someones reloads.

.357 magnum, .40 caliber, some rifle rounds... probably a couple hundred dollars in ammo collected from various gun purchases that included ammo over the years. Set aside marked as unknown origin, possible reloads or in some cases definitely reloads.

I have two options. Get rid of them/have them pulled for components, or attempt to determine if they are salvageable. I'm NOT interested in injury or damage to my guns of course so maybe I just eat the ammo.

I know a little, probably just enough to be dangerous. I know that there different types and strengths of powders, so it's not apples-to-apples necessarily. I'm mainly looking for obvious deviations of double charged powder, or under charged cartridges.

Let's take .357 magnum for starters. I individually weighed some known factory rounds of various types, and set them on a digital food scale (not super precise mind you, but close). Rounds come to anywhere from 13-16 grams per type, and a few at 16/17 grams (scale would give me different reads, so boarderline). Seems to be my baseline. So I went ahead and weighed all of the known reloads and they all came in this range. One box of reloads had (No. 7) written on it, presumably that's the powder. Probably some other notes I could go look for.

I did likewise with the .40 caliber ammo. Individually weighed an assorted amount of known .40 caliber ammo, and then weighed the reloads. All 15-16 grams.

Before I waste any more time, is it reasonably safe to assume that these aren't over charged or contain the wrong charges?
Author:  reginald_burrito [ Wed May 03, 2017 12:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Reloading question
A food scale doesn't have the precision required for reloading measurements. 1 gram is 15 grains. If we assume (for example) a normal charge of 5 grains, a double charge of powder wouldn't even appear in the measurements you've taken. Unless the scale has a higher precision setting (and I wouldn't be comfortable unless it had hundredths), you can't even establish consistency between individual rounds.

Add to that the uncertainty of powder type and there's just no way you can be completely sure those reloads are safe, even if you were to pull and weigh every single charge individually with a proper reloading scale.

There is far too much variety in components and far too many ways to make a mistake to make it worth it. Even experienced loaders make errors. I've been in your position with a lot of rounds to pull, but I say salvage what you can and start over. You should be able to re-use everything but the powders. Never mix powder brands, even if you do know what they are.
Author:  beckdw [ Wed May 03, 2017 12:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Reloading question
Thing is depending on the type of powder used there could be a 5+gr variation. If the guy used Hodgdon Clays the 40cal load could have been as little as 3.6gr, if he used Hodgdon Longshot, as much as 9.3gr. That is just one manufacturer...
I sure as heck wouldn't shoot it.
Author:  Pablo [ Wed May 03, 2017 2:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Reloading question
I would PIF these items or trade them to someone for a good book on reloading. Does not seem like a good place at all to start.
Author:  GeekWithGuns [ Wed May 03, 2017 2:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Reloading question
Reginald has it right. Powder charges when reloading are measured in grains with powder weighed separately from the other components. Even in the same calibre there can be many different acceptable powders, all with varying charge weights. On top of that each powder has a published or acceptable range from mild to stout loading. It will be impossible to say with any certainty what kind of powder or primers were used to construct the rounds. Additionally there is no way to know if the person doing the original reloading followed safe, recommended practices published by the powder manufacturer or accepted reloading manuals.

On your question of overcharging, the difference between a max load and a dangerous load may be as little as 1.0gr in handgun charges. So it's not really sufficient to just look for double charges or no charge/squib loads.

If it was my call, I would pull the bullets, discard the powder altogether, deprime and discard the primers. The cases can certainly be re-used and also the bullets can probably be re-used if they're not marred during bullet pulling.

You're on the right track by refusing to shoot the reloads. A good general rule of thumb is to never shoot other people's reloads in your own firearms. There may be some exceptions but that is a good general approach and would certainly apply in this case where the progeny of the ammunition is completely unknown.
Author:  PMB [ Wed May 03, 2017 5:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Reloading question
Primer is cheap. Powder is cheap. Bullets are cheap. Might be able to reuse the bullets even. A blown gun is not, and an injury even more so.
You're not in danger by someone going a grain over max if you are shooting with a healthy modern firearm. The -real- danger for a careful shooter is a wrong powder choice. Powders aren't more powerful or less powerful as much as they have different burn characteristics.
I would take this as an opportunity to invest in bullet puller(s)... If the bullets are worth using, then polish them up and reuse them. If not, melt them down and cast some new ones.

ETA: My rule of thumb for reloads is to take them apart if I wasn't there to watch the reloading. There are a few exceptions; I have a few friends (a couple from here on WaGuns also) who I would shoot their reloads without having watched the loading. For someone who I don't know or never met- risk/benefit ratio is too high.
Author:  thefuryoffire [ Wed May 03, 2017 7:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Reloading question
Yep. I can sell those for "components only" and it'd be cheap. If I were buying them, I'd be knocking out the powder and primer but reusing the bullets (after weighing) and brass.
Author:  PMB [ Wed May 03, 2017 7:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Reloading question
thefuryoffire wrote:
Yep. I can sell those for "components only" and it'd be cheap. If I were buying them, I'd be knocking out the powder and primer but reusing the bullets (after weighing) and brass.

That's another good point...
Let's say that someone has a really high quality accurate and precise scale, AND you knew that the powder was the correct one... That the person who loaded the ammo followed a good recipe.
Unless he also weighed each of his projectiles and brass cases, there will still likely be a few (several) grains difference between rounds, so how to know which of the three variables those grains are from?
Otherwise identical cases with the same headstamp and even from the same box of ammo can vary by several grains.
Author:  thefuryoffire [ Wed May 03, 2017 7:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Reloading question
Most factory brass is pretty variant on weight, especially in the amounts that we as reloaders care about. Most range-grade bullets (think Rainier, Xtreme) are +- 0.5gr while precision bullets will be really close to dead-on.

People who are really, really into their reloading do not care about their individual brass case weight - they care about internal volume only, so you'll find distance hand loaders doing water tests on their brass to make sure the internal volumes are as close to identical as they can get them.
Author:  deadshot2 [ Wed May 03, 2017 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Reloading question
Attempting to divine the contents of a cartridge by weighing is a fools errand.

Unless you absolutely know what the rounds are, where they came from, and what they are loaded with, Just get a bullet puller and tear them down. Bullets and brass can be re-used and the powder makes nice fertilizer for your lawn.

This is a good argument for reloaders to invest in plastic cases and not just put their loaded ammo in a ziploc bag. Mark the box with cartridge and load. When you run across it a few years later at least you'll know what it is. :bigsmile:
Author:  Old Growth [ Wed May 03, 2017 9:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Reloading question
Not to stray from popular opinion, but I have bought several firearms that came with a couple boxes of hand loads. I have shot them all. Some had recipes wrote on the boxes and I have sisnce reloaded the same recipe after shooting the examples with good results.


Twice in the last two years I have had FACTORY ammo fail. Not fail to fire, but one was stuck in the barrel after not having enough poop to make it out and the other fell on the ground not far out of the barrel.

This is the number one reason I started handloading. I dont trust a machine in a factory being double checked by minimum wage workers and poor quality control.
Author:  VantageReloading [ Sun May 07, 2017 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Reloading question
You could always wear heavy gloves and eye protection and head to the range :mulletslayer:

That wasn't advice. Probably the best suggestion I've seen is parting out the components and disposing of the powder.
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