I'm getting ready to start casting for semi-auto pistols and have had good luck with the Lee 6-cavity jobs for revolver rounds in .357, .44 and .45LC.
I am looking through Lee's 6 cavity molds for 9mm and 40S&W and am only seeing TC and SWC.

Scratch that. Found some appropriately shaped pill molds.
Strangely to my weak knowledge, the description for the TC and SWC molds say they are good for 9/40.
Has anyone cast TC or SWC for a semi-auto pistol, especially in 9mm or 40S&W? Shooting Results ?

On to lubing. I have only used lube grooves, never tumble lubed. I lost my lubrisizer some time ago, so am starting somewhat from scratch again. I like the idea of tumble lubing, but maybe not so much on the tackiness of the exposed projectile. Also, not fond of being stuck on purchasing a tumble lubricant.
Are there any substitutes for tumble lubricant? I am thinking on the lanolin/alcohol case lube.
I will need to buy a new sizer/luber since I'll be casting for rifle up to 2kfps too.

Have you rejected powder coating?

I am planning to do a Tomi Salami GF's worth of comparison testing this summer. Or after the house is finished.
I say this summer.
The SWMBO'd unit predicts that this will occur next winter.

Though I won't waste my time testing SWC and TC pills for the semi-auto if my current belief is backed up by a few other people's actual experiences.

The Bible (Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook) seems to be fine with TC and SWC for semi-auto. I'm stumped.
Lyman 356402

RCBS #9mm-124-cn

Saeco #383

What is your concern with TC and SWC designs?
Yes, they are very common for semi auto pistols of most common calibers, including 9mm. Lee's 120-TC (not the tumble lube version) is one of the better options; great bullet that should feed in pretty much any semi auto out there. Some of the early 9mm Luger ammo used TC bullets too, although I forget the details but think it was prior to WWII at least.

In 40 S&W, the 175-TC mold is an excellent design, and my first recommendation for someone new to casting for that caliber. Easy to get that one shooting well.

Some of Lee's RN designs are much more finicky, specifically those without a step at the transition between ogive and driving band. You'll find actual sized length of the front driving band varies a little between bullets according to variation in bullet size; this affects max OAL to fit your barrel. I recommend avoiding these, and going with the lube groove TC designs instead for both accuracy and ease of loading. Just my experience, from many thousands of rounds cast and loaded.

I use a number of Lee 6 cavity molds for my casting. In 9mm the little 95-RF is one of my favorites, but I use the 105-SWC for paper punching in the local GSSF matches. The SWC may not feed well in some aftermarket barrels, but works great in my OEM Glock barrels and leaves a very crisp clean hole in paper for easy scoring.
Sadly, Lee doesn't have any really good options for 9mm designs heavier than 125gr.

Also, if you lost your lubersizer, and are thinking of tumble lubing, consider dry tumble powder coating instead. I'll post a writeup here soon; it's easy, fast, and when done right there are no disadvantages compared to tumble lubing. I typically coat and size 900-1,100 bullets per hour. The equipment needed is minimal - a cheap $20 toaster oven, oven thermometer, some plastic yogurt tubs, ziploc bag, and a spoon is pretty much it. Oh, and bullet sizing dies of course, the Lee push-through variety.

Very likely that it is simple ignorance. I was under the (mis)impression that semiauto pistols functioned much better with a 1R or 2R ogive. I'm trying to keep up with you guys.

That seals it. You are picking away at my ignorance my friend, but I must warn you- I have an almost infinite supply of that stuff.
I was able to order a 2R in 9mm. If I figure out the issue that you are kindly educating me on (covered below) I'll order another in TC or SWC.


I'm placing an order for , er scratch that. darn it. I am requesting notification when it returns to stock. haha
I am placing a .401-175 SWC in the cart since the TC is sold out.

That is -much- appreciated kind sir.

I know what each of these words means, and yet I can't grok this sentence.
The driving band is basically all circumferences that are fully engaged in the rifling, no? So in a cast boolit with a lube groove, there are 2 driving bands? This hadn't crossed my mind until reading your post.
Can you tell me the part number, mold number, so I can look at the bullet shape that you are referring to?

Noticed that. I wonder why... seems like a glaring hole in their line up.


I have powdercoated a few times, although not enough to be unimpressed with the rate that you do it! Smokes. I did a couple of hundred at a time.
I've wondered how powdercoating acts in regards to rifle bullets. I have cast and shot for 30-06, hadn't PC'd any rifle pills. Does the PC act somewhat like a gas check also?
I have the push through dies for 309, 358, 430, and 452.

I have been doing some reading about gas checks... Looks like powder coating is no substitute. In another vast arena of my ignorance I have been thinking that gas checks prevent the hot gases from the burning powder from melting the base of the boolit on a microscopic level. Looks like this is not the case.

Well, there are at least two of us seated in that arena. What's the real story, then?

Mind you, I am repeating things that I have heard from my betters.
Apparently, it has to do with the squishiness of the copper versus the lead. Lead squishes too much under the higher pressures in +P, magnum and rifle loads... Has more to do with pressure than muzzle velocity, but since we don't directly measure pressures we go with what we can know.
The copper or aluminum cup (gas check) has a higher modulus of elasticity... Good word, eh? haha

I am still working my squishy brains around the physics that are going on inside the cartridge, chamber and barrel, but leading of the barrel is what our main preventive goal is. If the bullet is too squishy (too low BHN) then it can deposit lead from the tail end of the pill from squishiness. I try to balance words like "modulus" with words like "squishy."
If the pill is too hard, it won't obdurate and fill the rifling, so hot gases shoot past the projectile along the rifling and cut through the lead like a cutting torch, apparently depositing molten lead in front of the projectile.

When I cast in my teens and early 20's I just cast boolits and shot 'em.
I have so much still to learn, and not much time until I am fertilizing the earth.

All right, but let me make sure I got this part right: The hot gasses at the base of the bullet won't melt the lead, but the hot gasses that shoot past the bullet will melt the lead.

Eh?

I'm with you man. I am only repeating what I have heard.
I can -kind- of see it; the jet action of the gases shooting past the lead along the rifling is a bit different than simple rapid compression. In a way, the high pressure pushing against the base might actually help prevent the lead from melting... Sublimation and all that. I am purely making that up right now.
I was asking about gas checks in the lead melting website, and I was gently kicked in the nuts for suggesting that the hot gases melt the base of the boolit, even microscopically. I am convinced that there is a microscopic amount, but my nuts hurt to mention it.

You give me better information as soon as you find it please?

Here's the best solution to the lead melting/pressure/whatever problem: Replacement for gas checks.

Yes, exactly right. If you've used an oxy/acetylene cutting torch, you may have seen this phenomenon already. It's very difficult to get the torch to cut if you start in the middle of a flat plate, but when you have the hot torch flame blowing past an edge, it cuts easily.

Another way to think of it is water erosion of a dirt dam. The dam can hold a lot of water pressure when the water is just pushing on it, but when water starts flowing over the edge, it erodes quickly.


Powder coating is not a complete replacement for gas checks in some situations, but in others it's all that is needed.
In hot 9mm loads for example, I was never able to truly eliminate leading with lubed bullets without using some sort of gas check. The same bullets powdercoated though, in the same loads, produce no leading at all, are very accurate, and recovered bullets show intact coating on the base and driving bands.

In gas operated actions with high pressure rounds though, like the AR15 for example, copper gas checks are still needed with full power loads. Plain base powder coated bullets still leave no apparent leading in the bore, but accuracy suffers, IME mostly because of gas cutting as the bullet base passes the gas port. Evidence of this is lead buildup in the bolt carrier, and signs of single point gas cutting on recovered bullets. With certain loads I've found that even aluminum checks aren't adequate and suffer gas cutting, so you can't expect powder coating to resist it. Copper checks resist gas cutting much better.

Yes, cast bullets with lube grooves have multiple driving bands.

Reference the Lee mold catalog here: http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/hand-gun-bullet-molds/

The TL356-124-2R bullet, for example, has a step between the nose and bearing surface of the bullet. The step is large enough that minor variations (a couple thousandths) in bullet/nose size won't affect the amount of bullet that contacts the bore.

In contrast, the similar 356-125-2R bullet has no step between nose and bearing surface. Once the bullet is sized down to our desired diameter (assuming it casts or is coated larger), a small part of the ogive will now be part of the bearing surface. If we compare two of those bullets, where one is a couple thousandths larger than the other, the larger bullet will have more bearing surface, extending farther into the nose. This results in having to seat the bullet deeper to avoid jamming into the chamber throat.

Hope that helps.