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It is currently Tue Apr 23, 2024 1:52 pm
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Annealing Machines/Equipment
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GeekWithGuns
Site Supporter
Location: Round Rock, TX Joined: Thu Mar 5, 2015 Posts: 3899
Real Name: Dave
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Thinking to start annealing my cases in the near future. Just wondering what kind of solutions folks on here are using for annealing their cases, particularly what brand of annealing equipment anyone might recommend.
I was looking at the Bench-Source annealing machine which looks great quality though is pretty spendy. Maybe there are some other options out there I hadn't considered.
Also one other question: how many firings between annealing?
_________________ There are dead horses yet to be slain.... - NWGunner
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Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:37 pm |
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 52064
Real Name: Steve
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I bought the Annealeez recently: http://www.annealeez.comSo far all I've done is one batch of .223, but I don't have any complaints.
_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:40 pm |
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toys in the toybox
Site Supporter
Location: Tenino Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 Posts: 4396
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not sure who these folks marketers were but i think i would have come up with almost anything else for a product name.....you kids enjoy your, uh, machinery
Why am i not surprised that steve already had one of these???
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Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:54 pm |
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db-elwood
Site Supporter
Location: South Seattle Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 Posts: 1034
Real Name: elwood
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The 6.5 guys have done a few video reviews of annealing...check 'em out. viewtopic.php?f=42&t=46848&start=15
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Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:30 pm |
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deadshot2
Site Supporter
Location: Marysville, WA Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 Posts: 11581
Real Name: Mike
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I've looked at the annealing machines and watched them in operation. For me they offer no benefit. For years I've used 3/8" drive impact sockets, a square drive to hex shaft adapter, a cordless drill, Bernz-O-Matic torch and a heat crayon (750 degree). The socket holds my rifle cases so only shoulder and neck is exposed to flame and provides a heat sink to keep head area from getting too hot. Put case in socket, spin with drill, put neck in flame. After 3 seconds or so I remove and touch with heat crayon at the edge of the shoulder. If the crayon leaves a smear (showing it's just starting to melt) I use 3 seconds for my 'flame time'. If not, I go to four seconds, etc. Once I have the proper flame time to anneal the neck and just the shoulder area, I repeat the process without bothering to use the crayon until I'm done. I don't bother to dump cases in water, just an old stainless steel mixer bowl left from an old stand mixer. Water quenching doesn't do anything in the annealing process but give you wet cases you now need to dry. Unless you get a machine that uses an automatic case feeder you have to attend to the machine anyway so you're not really free to do anything else. I can anneal a case every 6 seconds or so. including the inserting of the case and dropping into the collection bowl. 10 cases per minute and I usually only have a couple hundred to anneal at a time. Even with my .223, I anneal for 45 minutes or so, take a break, then repeat. Total cost for my setup, about $6 for the impact socket, $4 for the adapter, already owned the cordless drill but a good tool is a Craftsman Cordless Screwdriver for ~$30. Heat crayon I bought at a Welding Supply shop for ~$8 and it will last in this task for about 20 years. Now compare that cost to what a machine will cost then choose according to your own desires. Just bear in mind, the machine still needs to be attended so you won't be able to go off and have a nap, etc.
_________________ "I've learned from the Dog that an afternoon nap is a good thing"
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"For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother" - William Shakespeare
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Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:38 am |
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Soldier_Citizen
Site Supporter
Location: south 'merca Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 Posts: 9738
Real Name: Mike
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Sounds like lube or hemroid cream.
_________________"No Quarter, No Mercy" mash_man wrote: #gangbangerlivesmatter
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Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:54 am |
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GeekWithGuns
Site Supporter
Location: Round Rock, TX Joined: Thu Mar 5, 2015 Posts: 3899
Real Name: Dave
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Thanks everyone for the recommendations. I'll be reading those articles on annealing in full soon. For now I am annealing a very small quantity of brass, maybe up to 80-120 cases every couple months. So I think the nod goes to Mike's technique.
Couple other questions: How does the heat crayon differ from the Tempilaq solution I've seen online? How many firings on your cases between annealing?
_________________ There are dead horses yet to be slain.... - NWGunner
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Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:43 am |
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deadshot2
Site Supporter
Location: Marysville, WA Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 Posts: 11581
Real Name: Mike
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GeekWithGuns wrote: Couple other questions: How does the heat crayon differ from the Tempilaq solution I've seen online? How many firings on your cases between annealing? Tempilaq has to be applied to every case. Tedious process at best. Some paint it inside, some outside. What you put on, must be taken off. A "Crayon" which is often available under various names at welding or industrial supply stores merely has to be touched to the hot surface. If the temp is hot enough it starts to melt. Starts just a smear like a regular crayon on paper and when hotter it gets more and more liquid. Below it's melt point which is on the label, not enough heat. I prefer this rather than taking hours to paint the necks of cases to be annealed and that way I only have a couple cases that were marked during the setup that need to have the stuff removed from. I shoot my cases until the primer pockets get loose. Depending on how stout the load this can run from 20 or more times down to 8-10. Big thing is that I haven't had a split neck since I started annealing my cases YEARS's ago.
_________________ "I've learned from the Dog that an afternoon nap is a good thing"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother" - William Shakespeare
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Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:37 am |
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 52064
Real Name: Steve
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deadshot2 wrote: Tempilaq has to be applied to every case. Tedious process at best. Some paint it inside, some outside. What you put on, must be taken off. I don't follow this. Why is the Tempilaq different than the heat crayon in terms of how many cases need it? I put Tempilaq on my first few cases, as I'm setting up the machine, to make sure that I'm getting the cases up to temperature but not too hot. I don't worry about getting it inside the case because I anneal my cases before sizing and therefore, per my process, before tumbling. So, it all gets cleaned up anyhow.
_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:21 am |
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deadshot2
Site Supporter
Location: Marysville, WA Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 Posts: 11581
Real Name: Mike
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MadPick wrote: deadshot2 wrote: Tempilaq has to be applied to every case. Tedious process at best. Some paint it inside, some outside. What you put on, must be taken off. I don't follow this. Why is the Tempilaq different than the heat crayon in terms of how many cases need it? I put Tempilaq on my first few cases, as I'm setting up the machine, to make sure that I'm getting the cases up to temperature but not too hot. I don't worry about getting it inside the case because I anneal my cases before sizing and therefore, per my process, before tumbling. So, it all gets cleaned up anyhow. There's really no difference in what they do, tell temperature. For me I just found the crayon to be less of a hassle as I don't need to apply anything and wait for it to dry, nothing. Just touch with crayon and get answer instantly. Just a matter of choice for me. Go over to forums like Accurateshooter.com and you see some who are totally anal over how to apply Tempilac, where, how long before annealing, and there's even an argument over what temperature to use. I use the 750 degree crayon and it's worked excellent for years. Just use it at the shoulder, not farther down the case and ONLY with a heat sink like a socket.
_________________ "I've learned from the Dog that an afternoon nap is a good thing"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother" - William Shakespeare
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Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:14 pm |
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sportsdad60
Site Supporter
Location: The banana belt of MT Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 Posts: 8587
Real Name: Brian
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_________________ "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."- Hunter S. Thompson
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Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:29 pm |
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SixPointEight
Location: Frederickson, WA Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 Posts: 194
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Haven't seen it mentioned, but I've seen a few of the match guys test their SD numbers each firing and let the math tell them when to anneal. Most of what I've heard is every 3rd firing to keep SD nice and consistent.
I've used the socket and torch method before, it's certainly cost effective. I've heard of some using a LEE lead melting pot, with an inch or so of sand-blasting media in it. Let it come to temperature, stick one case in, then another case, stick the third in, pull the first out and keep cycling them. Supposedly with this method it's impossible to get the cases too hot.
Alternative is to spend some mucho dollars and grab something like a Giraud or an induction annealer. You'll get GREAT consistency, and it's pretty automated. You dump cases in, and it spits out annealed cases. But it will cost you $500
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Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:46 pm |
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GeekWithGuns
Site Supporter
Location: Round Rock, TX Joined: Thu Mar 5, 2015 Posts: 3899
Real Name: Dave
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Thanks Brian appreciate the video. Vimeo is pretty cool. Have used it in the past to share video clips shot during ski camps to assess changes in ski technique. Works great for sharing footage.
My current thinking is to go pretty low-tech on this one as the cases I need to anneal (22 Hornet, 7mm TCU, and 7mm Rem BR) are a pretty low-volume affair. I shoot basically about 40-50 rounds each per month during match season so no need for a fancy, high volume annealing machine. I've narrowed my options down to the cordless driver, socket as heatsink method that you and Mike described or at most perhaps an Anneal-Rite machine which is pretty low cost as well. At first I was looking at Bench-Source though after reading Mike's posts realized it is just way overkill for my needs and annealing volume. I can take a defensive pistol training class with ammo for the amount of money that I'll save in equipment.
Thanks 68 that helps. For my volumes annealing every 3 or 4 firings should be just fine as we're only talking a hundred or hundred twenty cases at a time. Should be pretty easy. What is the SD acronym you mention? Is that something related to brass hardness?
_________________ There are dead horses yet to be slain.... - NWGunner
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Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:52 am |
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SixPointEight
Location: Frederickson, WA Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 Posts: 194
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SD is standard deviation, a statistical measurement of the velocity consistency of your loads. Lower is better, especially at long ranges. Shorter ranges it becomes incrementally less important
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Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:36 am |
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rainyday
Location: marysville,wash Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 Posts: 416
Real Name: steve
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i hope you enjoy what ever machine you get. i don't have a need to add another step to my reloading and have more 223 and 338 than i will shoot in my life
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Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:57 am |
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