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 Outside Neck Turning Tools 
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I have a Remington XP-100 in 7mm Remington Benchrest used for IHMSA matches. Turns out that the chamber is a very tight fit and many of my reloads don't chamber properly because the outside diameter of the neck is several thousandths larger after bullet seating than the chamber diameter. Was able to determine this by comparing the fire formed brass of successful reloads after firing (which conforms perfectly to the chamber dimensions) with the non-functional, unfired reloads which refuse to chamber.

After some discussions and research online, it turns out that this caliber is not normally crimped after bullet seating and the recommendation is to perform outside neck turning prior to loading to reduce the case mouth diameter slightly.
http://www.sinclairintl.com/GunTech/Outside-Case-Neck-Turning-for-Factory-Rifles-/detail.htm?lid=16135

Being more of a handgun shooter I am completely new to neck turning operations.

Wondering if any of the experienced reloaders can recommend any particular neck turning tools.

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Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:58 pm
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Oldandcranky1 wrote:
K&N tools have worked well for me. Carbide cutter and mandrel help. Use a drill set on low speed and get or borrow a ball mic to measure neck thickness.


Thanks for the info. Mostly in my reloading I just use a standard dial vernier caliper though do also have a rarely used ball mic on hand. Sounds like that will soon be seeing more use.

Are you referring to:
https://kmshooting.com/

Will take a gander through their product line tomorrow morning.

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Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:09 pm
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Oldandcranky1 wrote:
Yes K&M. You also get to start neck sizing your brass. Wilson dies and an arbor press will get you some great ammo. This link is a good read also. http://www.6mmbr.com/neckturningbasics.html


Thank you sir. I'm not much of a rifle shooter and wound up on this road shooting 22 Hornet, 7mm TCU, and 7mm Remington BR in Thompson Center G2 and Remington XP-100 for metallic silhouette competition. It's been quite the adventure so far as it's quite a bit more involved than loading straight walled pistol cartridges. Looks like I have a new chapter in front of me with neck sizing and turning for the 7mm BR.

I have an old Bonanza Co-Ax press and Forster dies that I've been using for these cartridges. Will also do some research on arbor presses and neck sizing instead of full length.

Really appreciate the links and information.

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Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:48 pm
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Follow-up on the thread. Just a thank you to OldAndCranky for all the tips.

Picked up a 21st Century Neck Turning Lathe for 7mm. Bought the titanium nitride arbors and mandrels and the tool comes with a custom ground carbide cutter as recommended.
http://www.xxicsi.com/7mm.html

Also picked up a Mitutoyo Ball micrometer as suggested for measuring neck thickness:
https://www.amazon.com/Mitutoyo-115-313-Spherical-Micrometer-Ratchet/dp/B002SG7PU2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1485257513&sr=8-1&keywords=mitutoyo+ball+micrometer

Will be checking my XP-100 shortly to see if it has chamber/throat diameter marked on the barrel. I do still happen to have a small handful of fireformed cases on hand so will mike those to check the fireformed diameter as well. I was lucky and found a few out of my first lot of reloads that actually fit so I do have a few fireformed cases for measurement and comparison. The rest of those I'll get busy with my bullet puller :bigsmile:

Just did a re-read of the 6mmbr page yesterday and it's a big help. Next weekend planning to do my first neck turning operations as most of my 7mm BR brass is oversized for the throat diameter. Pretty excited about learning a new reloading technique.

Planning to neck turn a small number of cases (like 3 to 4) then seat a bullet as a dummy round with no primer or powder loaded to check if the neck turned rounds can consistently chambered. Probably start out with a really light neck turning and go easy with several passes till I can get them all to chamber properly is what I'm thinking.

Planning to also pick up a Redding neck sizer bushing die shortly to optimize the neck diameter and tension on the cases once they're all neck turned.

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Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:47 am
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GeekWithGuns wrote:
Oldandcranky1 wrote:
Yes K&M. You also get to start neck sizing your brass. Wilson dies and an arbor press will get you some great ammo. This link is a good read also. http://www.6mmbr.com/neckturningbasics.html


I have an old Bonanza Co-Ax press and Forster dies that I've been using for these cartridges. Will also do some research on arbor presses and neck sizing instead of full length.

Really appreciate the links and information.


You're not going to be able to do any better than the Co-Ax and Forster dies; they are simply the best. I'd focus energy, time, money elsewhere since trying to improve on that will be challenging. Forster does have a good lineup of bushing bump neck sizing dies with neck sizing inserts in .001" increments.
Best,

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Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:01 am
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kellybachand wrote:
GeekWithGuns wrote:
Oldandcranky1 wrote:
Yes K&M. You also get to start neck sizing your brass. Wilson dies and an arbor press will get you some great ammo. This link is a good read also. http://www.6mmbr.com/neckturningbasics.html


I have an old Bonanza Co-Ax press and Forster dies that I've been using for these cartridges. Will also do some research on arbor presses and neck sizing instead of full length.

Really appreciate the links and information.


You're not going to be able to do any better than the Co-Ax and Forster dies; they are simply the best. I'd focus energy, time, money elsewhere since trying to improve on that will be challenging. Forster does have a good lineup of bushing bump neck sizing dies with neck sizing inserts in .001" increments.
Best,


Thank you for the information. I'll take a new look at the Forster catalog. For some reason had it stuck in my head that they did not make neck sizing bushing dies. Appreciate the correction.

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Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:27 pm
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http://www.forsterproducts.com/product-category/sizing-dies-bushing-bump-neck-sizing-dies/

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Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:24 pm
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:yes: :plusone:

I'm a big fan of Forster's Shoulder Bump/Neck Sizing Bushing Die. Does just enough to the fired brass to make it hold a bullet and chamber easy. No excess working of the brass. This and the Forster Seating die, with or without micrometer, and you have about as good as it gets.

As for neck turning, if you are able to chamber a piece of new brass then don't do any more neck turning than what's necessary to make the neck thickness even around it's circumference. In fact only cut deep enough to cut around 2/4 of the way around your case with the thinnest neck and then turn the rest in that batch to the same thickness.

If you CAN'T chamber a new piece of brass then the size of the chamber neck is important. Get some Cerrosafe and cast the chamber to determine the exact size then turn your brass so the necks provide the proper clearance.

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Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:11 pm
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Thanks Mike maybe I'll run the gun over to local gunsmith this afternoon and have them do a Cerrosafe casting. Thank you for the advice on going easy with the neck turning.

How much neck clearance do you usually aim for in a tight chamber/throat? My reading on the webs indicates an ideal difference between chamber neck diameter and neck diameter of loaded rounds about .001 - .002" for match chambers and .003-.004" for more normal tolerance. We're talking a Rem 700 action on the XP-100 chambered in 7mm Rem BR. I'm shooting metallic silhouettes at 50-200 yards so not necessarily looking for match groups. So my thinking is somewhere .003-.004 difference. Does that sound like a reasonable approach based on your experience?

My initial thought was to mike some fire formed cases to determine the neck turning measurement and also bushing size using the Forster guidelines but a casting would be the rock solid way to go.

I do have the Forster full length sizing die kit including the micrometer seating die. Unfortunately looked over the catalog and they don't list a neck sizing bump/bushing die for the 7mm Rem BR cartridge. I'll give them a call today and see if they can custom build one.

Otherwise stuck going the Redding Type S Bushing die route and just continue using the Forster Micrometer seating die with it.

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Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:01 am
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Looks like a 7mm Rem BR is a necked-up 6mm BR Rem so you should be able to use a 6mm BR Rem shoulder bump/neck sizing die and swap out the bushings to what you need.

What is the neck OD on a fired case?
What is the neck OD on a sized case?
What is the neck OD on a loaded case?

I like to size necks on a loaded round to .002-.004" below a fired case and with .002" neck tension. Neck tension adjustment will depend on the load development.

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Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:34 am
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BlDtyLry wrote:
Looks like a 7mm Rem BR is a necked-up 6mm BR Rem so you should be able to use a 6mm BR Rem shoulder bump/neck sizing die and swap out the bushings to what you need.

What is the neck OD on a fired case?
What is the neck OD on a sized case?
What is the neck OD on a loaded case?

I like to size necks on a loaded round to .002-.004" below a fired case and with .002" neck tension. Neck tension adjustment will depend on the load development.


Here we're talking about a chamber that may be too small for a standard sized case neck unless turned down. Many competition chambers are purposely undersized in the neck area so the neck expansion is minimal with each firing. Also undersized so the shooter can use a thinner neck than what one would see in a standard SAAMI case. Thin necks release bullets easier and seal the end of the chamber quicker. Using thin necks also allows one to create near perfect neck thickness instead of having to rely on the factory to produce uniformity.

As for how much clearance to allow for? It depends a lot on how frequently one cleans their rifle/chamber. For the shooter that wants to clean every 100 rounds or so, I'd go to the higher end and leave .003" clearance (total, which is only .0015" all around). If one is cleaning after every course of fire in competition or between "targets" like Benchrest shooters often do, then you can go down to the low end.

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Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:59 am
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GeekWithGuns wrote:

My initial thought was to mike some fire formed cases to determine the neck turning measurement and also bushing size using the Forster guidelines but a casting would be the rock solid way to go.



"Casting" a chamber is really simple. Just purchase a Cerrosafe "bar" from Brownell's and do it yourself. Cerrosafe is actually just "Woods Metal" which melts at 158 degrees. You could melt it in a double boiler on your stove top and pour into the chamber with a soup ladle. Just make sure your chamber is super clean along with the first couple inches of the bore.

Just make sure to block the bore with a wadded up patch and only fill the chamber itself, not pouring metal up into the bolt lug area. You don't want to create a mechanical lock.

Cerrosafe will go through a series of dimensional changes as it cools. It will shrink and expand according to a chart that's provided with the "bar" (or online if it didn't get included).

It's a simple DIY job with the material costing far less than what a Gunsmith might charge you.

You also get to keep the casting for future reference. After you do one you'll start doing it on any rifle you are customizing ammo for.

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Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:09 am
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Thank you to everyone for all the excellent advice on this thread. Re-read the 6mmbr article 'The Basics of Neck Turning' several times as well.

Turned out my first batch of 20 neck turned cases today. Took a little while to assemble all the tools, CerroCast my chamber and just plain make the time for this project.

Here was my process:
- Full length resize all cases
- Trim all cases to recommended 7mm Rem BR trim length in Hornady reloading manual of 1.510"
- Chamfer inside and outside of case mouth
- Run case through arbor sizing die that came with my neck turning tool
- Measure case neck diameter with Sinclair tool
- Run case through 21st Century neck turning lathe
- Deburr case neck with bronze wool scrub
- Re-measure case neck diameter with Sinclair tool to verify improvement and final case neck wall thickness

Loaded a few dummy rounds (no powder or primer) in the garage to make sure I can cycle them in my XP-100 action. Success!!!
Will load these cases into live rounds later today then off to the range later this week for testing.

0.315 = Chamber Neck Diameter (from casting)
- 0.284 = Bullet Diameter 7mm
- 0.024 = Neck Wall Thickness 0.012 * 2
--------
0.007 = case to neck wall clearance

Maybe a bit more than desirable though with 0.012 neck wall thickness the necks on all cases are pretty consistent. I'll be picking up Neck Bushing die and bushings next month which should cut down how much the brass gets reworked during sizing. The brass is Remington factory 7mm BR. Apparently Remington brass is known to have quite a bit of variation in neck wall thickness.

Eventually when more brass is needed will have to buy 6 BR brass and neck up to 7mm as Remington has discontinued 7mm Rem BR brass production.

Here's some pics of the different tools I used. Thanks again to everyone involved. Really appreciate the help to get off the ground with a new reloading skill.


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