 |
 |
It is currently Sat Apr 27, 2024 9:19 am |
|
All times are UTC - 8 hours |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
|
Page 1 of 2 |
[ 20 posts ] | Go to page 1, 2 Next |
| Print view | Previous topic | Next topic |
9mm powder & projectile recommendations?
| Author | Message |
|---|---|
 Location: Arlington wa Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 Posts: 1149 
|
With my incoming order of Federal 124g 9mm HST +P ammo and my good fortune of picking up a few thousand SPP I'd like to load my own training ammo that will replicate Point of Impact without being +P. Is this doable with 124gr projectiles, or would I be better off with 115g? My requirement on the projectiles is they must be either plated or FMJ. I'm currently looking at what I call the big 3; X-treme, Everglades, and RMR. Zero used to be good, but their prices have jumped beyond the other 3.
With all that in mind what powders should I be looking at especially if its clean burning. You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. _________________ You can only run for so long, and if you do you'll still be surrounded and out numbered so hold the line. |
| Mon Jan 15, 2024 1:16 pm |
|
|
|
 Location: SEATTLE Joined: Sat May 14, 2022 Posts: 66 Real Name: Al
|
It will be difficult to what you suggest. Velocity = trajectory. Plus P will tend to group lower then standard or reduced recoil loads, out to a certain point where the trajectories cross.
I like the X-treme bullets and Tightgroup powder for my standard 9mm loads, 3N37 for the hotter loads. Tightgroup is fairly clean even at reduced velocity loading. 3N37 needs some pressure, then really clean, but dirty as heck at standard/ reduced loading. Those are the two 9mm powders I have been using lately, use to use #5 it is a excellent all around 9mm powder as well. You didn't mention Berry's, another really good TCJ I have used when price is right. I think the Zeros are jacketed, not copper plated, probably why the price difference. really good bullets if I remember correctly. Haven't used Everglades or RMR. There are a million other good 9mm powders you will soon find out. |
| Mon Jan 15, 2024 6:24 pm |
|
|
|
|
Site Supporter   Location: East of Japan, not by much. Joined: Fri Jun 3, 2011 Posts: 12991
|
Extreme bullets for the win - they resize before and after plating, and their plating is super thick - just try squashing a few projectiles in a 200 ton hydraulic press - Extremes plating stretched, Berrys plating split and cracked like a dry river bed. Same with a few others.
Titegroup for powder. _________________ Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Give a man a fishing pole, and he will drink too much beer, get tangled in fish line, hook himself in the nose casting, fall overboard, and either drown, or, go home hungry and wet. Give a man a case of dynamite, and he will feed the whole town for a year! BE ON NOTICE: PRIVACY NOTICE: Warning - any person and/or institution and/or Agent and/or Agency of any governmental structure including but not limited to the United States Federal Government also using or monitoring/using this website or any of its associated websites, you do NOT have my permission to utilize any of my profile information nor any of the content contained herein including, but not limited to my photos, and/or the comments made about my photos or any other "picture" art posted on my profile. You are hereby notified that you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing, disseminating, or taking any other action against me with regard to this profile and the contents herein. The foregoing prohibitions also apply to your employee, agent, student or any personnel under your direction or control. The contents of this profile are PRIVATE and legally privileged and confidential information, and the violation of my personal privacy is punishable by law. UCC 1-103 1-308 ALL RIGHTS RESERVED WITHOUT PREJUDICE |
| Mon Jan 15, 2024 9:33 pm |
|
|
|
 Location: Puyallup Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2018 Posts: 3085
|
It isn't difficult at all to get same POI as your chosen SD load.
Stay with same bullet weight, THAT is where the difference will be. Run a 124gr bullet fairly hot, and you'll see same POI. Titegroup is my go-to for training and SD loads, 4.2gr w/ 124gr bullet is great. It burns clean if you run it toward max, dirty if on lower end. Plenty of good powders out there for it, CFE Pistol, W-231/HP-38, Unique, Bullseye. I'd say work up a load with whatever you can find a bunch of. Everglades has, for a long time, had the best prices and quality for plated or FMJ. Been getting rifle and pistol bullets from them for years. Lately though, Anerican Reloading has had pulled JHP bullets for LESS than FMJ. I've loaded a shitload of HST, V-Crown, XTP, for less, so it's kind of a win-win having training ammo that's useful for SD too. _________________ I'm a Morlock, in a land of Eloi... |
| Mon Jan 15, 2024 10:26 pm |
|
|
|
|
Location: SEATTLE Joined: Sat May 14, 2022 Posts: 66 Real Name: Al
|
OP wanted to replicate point of impact without being +P so I still say no, they will not impact in the same place, except at the point the two trajectories intersect. What you say is 100% correct if he didn't want to lower the velocity.
Another option would be to experiment with lighter bullets, may be able to replicate POI but going to take some experimentation. |
| Tue Jan 16, 2024 9:02 am |
|
|
|
|
Location: Arlington wa Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 Posts: 1149
|
Albroswift wrote: It will be difficult to what you suggest. Velocity = trajectory. Plus P will tend to group lower then standard or reduced recoil loads, out to a certain point where the trajectories cross. I like the X-treme bullets and Tightgroup powder for my standard 9mm loads, 3N37 for the hotter loads. Tightgroup is fairly clean even at reduced velocity loading. 3N37 needs some pressure, then really clean, but dirty as heck at standard/ reduced loading. Those are the two 9mm powders I have been using lately, use to use #5 it is a excellent all around 9mm powder as well. You didn't mention Berry's, another really good TCJ I have used when price is right. I think the Zeros are jacketed, not copper plated, probably why the price difference. really good bullets if I remember correctly. Haven't used Everglades or RMR. There are a million other good 9mm powders you will soon find out. Why did you move away from AA#5? I didn't mention Berry's because of their price point being higher than extreme or everglades. RENCORP wrote: Extreme bullets for the win - they resize before and after plating, and their plating is super thick - just try squashing a few projectiles in a 200 ton hydraulic press - Extremes plating stretched, Berrys plating split and cracked like a dry river bed. Same with a few others. Titegroup for powder. Do you notice tightgroup making your gun hotter than other powders? Very cool info about extremes plating having more stretch! ViniVidivici wrote: It isn't difficult at all to get same POI as your chosen SD load. Stay with same bullet weight, THAT is where the difference will be. Run a 124gr bullet fairly hot, and you'll see same POI. Titegroup is my go-to for training and SD loads, 4.2gr w/ 124gr bullet is great. It burns clean if you run it toward max, dirty if on lower end. Plenty of good powders out there for it, CFE Pistol, W-231/HP-38, Unique, Bullseye. I'd say work up a load with whatever you can find a bunch of. Everglades has, for a long time, had the best prices and quality for plated or FMJ. Been getting rifle and pistol bullets from them for years. Lately though, Anerican Reloading has had pulled JHP bullets for LESS than FMJ. I've loaded a shitload of HST, V-Crown, XTP, for less, so it's kind of a win-win having training ammo that's useful for SD too. I looked at American reloading, but I didn't see them having better prices unless I missed it. Albroswift wrote: OP wanted to replicate point of impact without being +P so I still say no, they will not impact in the same place, except at the point the two trajectories intersect. What you say is 100% correct if he didn't want to lower the velocity. Another option would be to experiment with lighter bullets, may be able to replicate POI but going to take some experimentation. Exactly, most of my 9mm guns don't recommend a steady diet of +p. Something I've found thrown around the net is that a 124gr or heavier projectile will impact higher than a 115gr because the barrel has already unlocked and begun to rotate up before the projectile leaves the muzzle. Unfortunately I think they were only talking about standard velocity. Now if the +P 124's shoot flatter because they are leaving before that happens then a 115gr would make sense as training load. _________________ You can only run for so long, and if you do you'll still be surrounded and out numbered so hold the line. |
| Wed Jan 17, 2024 8:06 am |
|
|
|
|
Location: Arlington wa Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 Posts: 1149
|
I think I found what I was looking for on federal's website. This is the link to their ballistic calculator https://www.federalpremium.com/ballistics-calculator All of their currently offered loads are available so that you can compare drops and drift ect. You can also plug in your own basic handloaded info as well so I did. In order below you will find the factory HST +P compared to 4 handloads two were 115gr and two were 124gr with different velocities. But it kinda confirms what you guys were saying most loads are going to be nearly identical at close range. Its not till you get out past 40-50yrds that things begin to drop off faster than others mainly based on velocity.
Based on this I don't really see much of a reason to run the more expensive 124's in stead of a 115gr at 1050fps do you? I wonder which one uses more powder? You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. _________________ You can only run for so long, and if you do you'll still be surrounded and out numbered so hold the line. |
| Wed Jan 17, 2024 12:29 pm |
|
|
|
|
Location: Puyallup Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2018 Posts: 3085
|
recounted., for American Reloading, they're always running 30-35% off on projectiles.
Doesn't show until you put 'em in cart. Go check it out. Free shipping like Everglades too. I've gotten 500 124gr V-Crowns, for example, for 38 bucks, can't even get 500 plated from anyone for that price. I agree on the quality of X-Tremes though, BTW, and have gotten them from Sages and X-Treme itself when they run free shipping deals. Their 124gr HP plated is one of the most accurate bullets in 9mm I've ever loaded. But I'm all in for AmRel lately, can't beat the price. _________________ I'm a Morlock, in a land of Eloi... |
| Wed Jan 17, 2024 1:22 pm |
|
|
|
|
Location: Arlington wa Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 Posts: 1149
|
ViniVidivici wrote: recounted., for American Reloading, they're always running 30-35% off on projectiles. Doesn't show until you put 'em in cart. Go check it out. Free shipping like Everglades too. I've gotten 500 124gr V-Crowns, for example, for 38 bucks, can't even get 500 plated from anyone for that price. I agree on the quality of X-Tremes though, BTW, and have gotten them from Sages and X-Treme itself when they run free shipping deals. Their 124gr HP plated is one of the most accurate bullets in 9mm I've ever loaded. But I'm all in for AmRel lately, can't beat the price. I gotcha! I see what you're talking about now, I'm just a little late to the party based on his stock. Currently everglades FMJ's are my cheapest option since I'm looking to pick up a few thousand in one shot. _________________ You can only run for so long, and if you do you'll still be surrounded and out numbered so hold the line. |
| Wed Jan 17, 2024 1:56 pm |
|
|
|
|
Location: Puyallup Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2018 Posts: 3085
|
I don't know why I typed "recounted" up there.
Do it. Everglades bullets are awesome too. _________________ I'm a Morlock, in a land of Eloi... |
| Wed Jan 17, 2024 6:31 pm |
|
|
|
|
Location: SEATTLE Joined: Sat May 14, 2022 Posts: 66 Real Name: Al
|
Screaming deal on a lab radar, if you are serious about this stuff.
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=144556&p=1372565&hilit=labradar#p1372565 |
| Wed Jan 17, 2024 9:30 pm |
|
|
|
|
Location: Arlington wa Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 Posts: 1149
|
Albroswift wrote: Screaming deal on a lab radar, if you are serious about this stuff. viewtopic.php?f=12&t=144556&p=1372565&hilit=labradar#p1372565 Thats a great deal! I actually already have access to a labradar, and I am starting to look at the new garmin unit. _________________ You can only run for so long, and if you do you'll still be surrounded and out numbered so hold the line. |
| Thu Jan 18, 2024 7:36 am |
|
|
|
|
Location: Arlington wa Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 Posts: 1149
|
Has anyone used ramshot silhouette, and winchester autocomp? I'm really curious if the autocomp creates extra recoil/muzzle flip as it was designed to create more gas for compensator use. I ask because I stumbled across this website... http://www.natoreloading.com/9mm/ in their testing the autocomp was one of the most accurate powders they used.
_________________ You can only run for so long, and if you do you'll still be surrounded and out numbered so hold the line. |
| Tue Jan 23, 2024 9:21 am |
|
|
|
|
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer  Location: Tacoma, Washington Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 Posts: 8379
|
Schoolboy wrote: Has anyone used ramshot silhouette, and winchester autocomp? I'm really curious if the autocomp creates extra recoil/muzzle flip as it was designed to create more gas for compensator use. I ask because I stumbled across this website... http://www.natoreloading.com/9mm/ in their testing the autocomp was one of the most accurate powders they used. BLACK HAMMER ARMS 07/02 NFA Dealer http://www.blackhammerarms.com http://www.facebook.com/blackhammerarms https://www.instagram.com/blackhammerarms _________________ BLACK HAMMER ARMS Buy A Suppressor http://www.silencershop.com/blackhammerarms Type 7 Class 2 SOT NFA Dealer 1911 Pistolsmithing Firearm Refinishing GLOCK Certified Armorer CMMG Authorized Dealer NEMO Arms Authorized Dealer http://www.blackhammerarms.com http://www.facebook.com/blackhammerarms https://www.instagram.com/blackhammerarms/ |
| Tue Jan 23, 2024 9:50 pm |
|
|
|
|
Location: Arlington wa Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 Posts: 1149
|
Dreadi, how was your experience with silhouette?
I've done some more reading and poking around hodgens reloading pages and stumbled across winchester 572 powder. It looks like it should easily get me into the speed range I want at 32,600psi max load with a 124gr projectile. Anyone try it before? _________________ You can only run for so long, and if you do you'll still be surrounded and out numbered so hold the line. |
| Thu Jan 25, 2024 11:04 am |
|
|
|
|
|
Page 1 of 2 |
[ 20 posts ] | Go to page 1, 2 Next |
|
All times are UTC - 8 hours |
Who is online |
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests |
| You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|