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 Mossberg Showckwave PGO and Remington TAC 14 
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Is the Mossberg Shockwave PGO and/ or Remington TAC 14 legal in WA state?

The feds call these Pistol Grip Only Firearms provided the firearm was originally manufactured as such. Silly, as the Mossberg or Remington production line manufactures the same receiver whether it will eventually be a waterfowl pump or a PGO. Here is the link to the latest ATF finding as well as the two shotguns:

http://www.mossberg.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Shockwave-Letter-from-ATF-3-2-17.pdf

Now that we know what the ATF states, what does WA state law allow (prohibit)?

Here is the regulatory basis of my question:

WA RCW 9.41.010 Terms Defined

...(23) "Short-barreled shotgun" means a shotgun having one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length and any weapon made from a shotgun by any means of modification if such modified weapon has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.

More specifically, does the statute include both definitions (barrel length 18" or less AND less than 26" overall) for each firearm? Or would the barrel length of less than 18 inches make it a short barreled shotgun?

Put another way, does the definition include such pistol grip only firearms as those mentioned? I.E. 14" barrel but GREATER than 26" overall length.

https://www.remington.com/shotguns/pump-action/model-870/model-870-tac-14

https://www.mossberg.com/category/series/590-shockwave/

My local PD cannot (will not) answer the question, WA Dept of Licensing refuses to touch it, and WA State Patrol returned my request stating "not our department". WA Attorney General's office promises action, albeit slow.

Interested to hear from the experts here.

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Thu May 18, 2017 6:25 am
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This is lazy deduction, but since they are for sale here, someone did their homework. The burden of law is a lot heavier on the seller, an FFL, than the buyer.

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Thu May 18, 2017 7:39 am
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3584ELK wrote:
WA RCW 9.41.010 Terms Defined

...(23) "Short-barreled shotgun" means a shotgun


This is where your reading should stop. As the Shockwave is NOT a Shotgun, but just a firearm as outlined in the ATF Letter. It can't be a shotgun unless it was stocked (i.e., butt stock) in a previous life.

** my .02 cents, not a lawyer, did watch Columbo when I was 4. **


Thu May 18, 2017 7:57 am
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Fair enough, but my senses tell me that if the ATF got tripped up by the issue (and they did) then the .gov idiots in Olympia have absolutely nothing to offer but vague ambiguity.

As a not so famous FFL once said "You may beat the charge, but you will still take the ride." Much like testing I-594, who wants to go first? Not I.

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Thu May 18, 2017 8:01 am
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The firearms in question are not shotguns because they are not designed to be fired from the shoulder.

RCW 9.41.010 wrote:
(23) "Short-barreled shotgun" means a shotgun having one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length and any weapon made from a shotgun by any means of modification if such modified weapon has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.
(24) "Shotgun" means a weapon with one or more barrels, designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.

And if they are not shotguns, then they are also not short-barreled shotguns.

They do fit the state definition of pistol though:

RCW 9.41.010 wrote:
(18) "Pistol" means any firearm with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length, or is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand.


Thu May 18, 2017 8:09 am
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Guns4Liberty wrote:

They do fit the state definition of pistol though:

RCW 9.41.010 wrote:
(18) "Pistol" means any firearm with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length, or is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand.


hmmmmmmmm....


Thu May 18, 2017 8:32 am
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Guns4Liberty wrote:
The firearms in question are not shotguns because they are not designed to be fired from the shoulder.

RCW 9.41.010 wrote:
(23) "Short-barreled shotgun" means a shotgun having one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length and any weapon made from a shotgun by any means of modification if such modified weapon has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.
(24) "Shotgun" means a weapon with one or more barrels, designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.

And if they are not shotguns, then they are also not short-barreled shotguns.

They do fit the state definition of pistol though:

RCW 9.41.010 wrote:
(18) "Pistol" means any firearm with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length, or is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand.


Sounds great, but I would like to meet the engineer who designed a 12 gauge shotgun to be held and fired by the use of a single hand. I want to watch this occur, only from a distance.

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Thu May 18, 2017 9:10 am
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3584ELK wrote:
Sounds great, but I would like to meet the engineer who designed a 12 gauge shotgun to be held and fired by the use of a single hand.

He works for Rossi. :wink05:

3584ELK wrote:
I want to watch this occur, only from a distance.

Request granted!


Thu May 18, 2017 9:13 am
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I think the keyword in the Pistol definition is "or". A firearm is a pistol (in the state of WA) if it meets at least one of the two criteria in the definition:
  1. Barrel length is under 16"
  2. Designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand

Neither the Mossberg Shockwave nor the Remington TAC 14 are designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand, so they do not satisfy #2. But they both have 14" barrels, so they do satisfy #1.

Of course, a SBR also satisfies #1, so one could argue that a SBR is also a pistol according to the RCW. :facepalm2:


Thu May 18, 2017 9:24 am
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Which exactly addresses my quandary. If I could depend on the 5th grader who wrote the RCW's...yeah, never mind.

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Thu May 18, 2017 11:01 am
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3584ELK wrote:
Which exactly addresses my quandary. If I could depend on the 5th grader who wrote the RCW's...yeah, never mind.

If we're just talking about these two firearms, it looks pretty clear to me that they are perfectly legal in Washington, and are to be treated as pistols. YMMV


Thu May 18, 2017 2:58 pm
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Guns4Liberty wrote:
3584ELK wrote:
Sounds great, but I would like to meet the engineer who designed a 12 gauge shotgun to be held and fired by the use of a single hand.

He works for Rossi. :wink05:

3584ELK wrote:
I want to watch this occur, only from a distance.

Request granted!


Insane, and he still uses two hands.

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Thu May 18, 2017 3:07 pm
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3584ELK wrote:
Fair enough, but my senses tell me that if the ATF got tripped up by the issue (and they did) then the .gov idiots in Olympia have absolutely nothing to offer but vague ambiguity.

As a not so famous FFL once said "You may beat the charge, but you will still take the ride." Much like testing I-594, who wants to go first? Not I.



ATF clarified to FFLs that factory built PistolGripOnly "shotshell firing firearms" are not shotguns/long guns and are not lawful to sell to either out of state residents or those under 21 years old in 2009. What exactly did they get tripped up about?

Under both Fed law and WA law, shotshell firing firearms that have NEVER had a stock on them are not "shotguns". Firearms that are in excess of 26" OAL are not AOWs.

So in summation .....virgin shotshell firing receiver + OAL in excess of 26" = legal with any barrel length (if you maintain 26" OAL).

Add a Sigbrace or shockwave blade for added stability and a shorter barrel length :thumbsup2:


ETA: here's another stockless Firearm with a 26" OAL
Image


Thu May 18, 2017 4:56 pm
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