Nothing contained in this section shall be construed as legal advice. All members and guests are advised to perform due diligence in regards to laws and legal actions.
We live in an un-gated community near Lake Tapps and my security cam shows a couple of suspicious vehicles each Fri/Sat/Sunday driving around between 1am and 4am. Each week is a different report from neighbors, cars broke into, garage doors left open and items missing, etc etc. For 19 years this is the norm around here. Our home owners association in this 60 home platte really needs to look into getting security at the wee hours of the morning!
Anyway, found a nice new generator in my landscaping in the front yard this morning so I checked my security cam out. Sure enough, someone parked just barely out of the camera coverage area. Apparently the thieves couldn't get a 5000 watt Husky Generator into the trunk of a Toyota Celica. So they abandoned it in my yard.
This question came up a few years ago with my local sheriff in unincorporated Pierce county. I never got a straight answer other than your attached garage is considered your domain of the household.
After another garage break in last night(Neighbors house, not mine) the question came forth again by my neighbor "Can I use deadly force if I catch an intruder in my garage?"
I told him I was not sure, but if the intruder was threatening you or coming at you, I was pretty sure he could stand his ground. (Don't shoot intruders in the back though!) And, lying in wait with a garage door was going to get him prison time too if he decided to set a trap (as he mentioned this offhand)
_________________ "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."- Hunter S. Thompson
Mon May 15, 2017 8:28 am
AR15L
Site Supporter
Location: Nampa, Idaho Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 Posts: 19387
Real Name: Rick
Anyway, found a nice new generator in my landscaping in the front yard this morning so I checked my security cam out. Sure enough, someone parked just barely out of the camera coverage area. Apparently the thieves couldn't get a 5000 watt Husky Generator into the trunk of a Toyota Celica. So they abandoned it in my yard.
I need to come back and get my generator. It was too heavy for my Celica so I'll be back later today with a truck that can actually handle the weight much better. BTW it was late, I was tired and forgot the address where I left it. Could you please tell me again your address?
_________________ ‘What’s the point of being a citizen if an illegal gets all the benefits’
Mon May 15, 2017 8:37 am
sportsdad60
Site Supporter
Location: The banana belt of MT Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 Posts: 8578
Real Name: Brian
(7) "Dwelling" means any building or structure, though movable or temporary, or a portion thereof, which is used or ordinarily used by a person for lodging;
Hey SD during my training at FAS we were taught that a perpetrator must have placed the self-defense shooter in immediate threat of death or serious bodily injury for a shooter to have a justifiable claim of self-defense. in order to evaluate whether this actually occurred, then a reasonable person must evaluate the following criteria: - Did the perpetrator demonstrate the Ability to inflict death or serious bodily injury on the defendant? e.g. did the perp(s) have either a weapon or disparity of physical force sufficient to inflict death or bodily injury - Did the perpetrator demonstrate the Opportunity to inflict death or serious bodily injury on the defendant? e.g. did the perp(s) have the opportunity to use their ability to inflict death or serious bodily injury on you - Did the perpetrator place the defendant in immediate Jeopardy of death or serious bodily injury? e.g. did the shooter reasonably believe that the perp(s) intended to kill or cripple them?
In addition the defendant CANNOT be the instigator of the circumstances leading to a claimed self-defense shooting or the claim of self-defense is nullified. In other words, a shooter cannot be the person who started the fight, car chase, burglary, or whatever have you and then claim self-defense. This is pretty common sense for most people.
All this being said, even if you are found justified in the use of deadly force that is only the issue of potential criminal liability. The standard for civil liability of wrongful death is less than that required for criminal charges. In other words, you may still be found guilty of civil liability even if a prosecutor, grand jury, or jury trial found that you were within your rights of justifiable self-defense from a criminal perspective.
This being the case, I always take the approach that it is best to do everything possible to avoid such a situation. If I suspected an intruder in my garage and the door to the house was fully locked, there is no way I would charge out with a gun and risk a gunfight over mere material possessions in my garage. Best to hunker down and call the cops. Let them handle it. Only if a perp broke down my door then I would apply deadly force.
There's just no way that any material possessions in my garage are worth any risk of being found guilty of a criminal shooting or civil liability which would be financially ruinous.
If in doubt, then a seminar on Justifiable Use of Deadly Force at FAS or Insights Training would be in order. Also I would really highly recommend enrolling in a legal defense organization. In Texas I belong to Texas Law Shield for $35 a month (family membership). An attorney specializing in firearms and self-defense law always picks up the phone if you are involved in a shooting or just have questions on legal liability. In addition, they fund your legal defense in the event of a shooting. In Washington, there is a comparable organization run by Marty and Gila Hayes called the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Fund.
_________________ There are dead horses yet to be slain.... - NWGunner
Mon May 15, 2017 9:14 am
Massivedesign
Site Admin
Location: Olympia, WA Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 Posts: 38293
Real Name: Dan
Domain has nothing to do with this as WA State has no Castle Doctrine. If somebody is on YOUR Property and you are in fear of your life, then you have the right to act accordingly. Remember though, that your actions will need to be justified to a Prosecuting Atty, and possibly a jury of your peers. You hear a bump and you go to investigate and somebody who is NOT supposed to be there comes at you, one of you is going lights out... Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.
Mon May 15, 2017 9:27 am
sportsdad60
Site Supporter
Location: The banana belt of MT Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 Posts: 8578
Real Name: Brian
Geek and Moktor, that is great info and in a nut shell what I explained to Neighbor. "Only if you're threatened" statement with deadly force! Thank you for clarification and I will copy paste that information to him.
_________________ "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."- Hunter S. Thompson
Mon May 15, 2017 9:36 am
sportsdad60
Site Supporter
Location: The banana belt of MT Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 Posts: 8578
Real Name: Brian
Domain has nothing to do with this as WA State has no Castle Doctrine. If somebody is on YOUR Property and you are in fear of your life, then you have the right to act accordingly. Remember though, that your actions will need to be justified to a Prosecuting Atty, and possibly a jury of your peers. You hear a bump and you go to investigate and somebody who is NOT supposed to be there comes at you, one of you is going lights out... Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.
_________________ "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."- Hunter S. Thompson
Mon May 15, 2017 9:37 am
AR15L
Site Supporter
Location: Nampa, Idaho Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 Posts: 19387
Real Name: Rick
Anyway, found a nice new generator in my landscaping in the front yard this morning so I checked my security cam out. Sure enough, someone parked just barely out of the camera coverage area. Apparently the thieves couldn't get a 5000 watt Husky Generator into the trunk of a Toyota Celica. So they abandoned it in my yard.
(I went about this the wrong way the first time)
_________________ ‘What’s the point of being a citizen if an illegal gets all the benefits’
Mon May 15, 2017 9:49 am
GeekWithGuns
Site Supporter
Location: Round Rock, TX Joined: Thu Mar 5, 2015 Posts: 3899
Real Name: Dave
On a side note, I had some packages stolen around Christmas and again recently. (UPS knows to put packages BEHIND the flower pots but the USPS is a lazy biotch, she just tosses them on the first step, not hidden at all)
Thankfully Amazon is good at refunding or shipping the order.
But, I am buying one of these next month. The security camera should get interesting soon! This guy builds them in his Tacoma garage. https://www.theblankbox.com/home
Some of these are great! just type in theblankbox in youtube search.
_________________ "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."- Hunter S. Thompson
Domain has nothing to do with this as WA State has no Castle Doctrine. If somebody is on YOUR Property and you are in fear of your life, then you have the right to act accordingly.
Homicide is also justifiable when committed either: (1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his or her presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or (2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his or her presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he or she is.
Mon May 15, 2017 2:29 pm
Guntrader
In Memoriam
Location: Mukilteoish Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 Posts: 11595
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