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 Can a friend FFL mail a gun I own to me in a different state 
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dreadi wrote:
Bennngeeee wrote:
dreadi wrote:
Bennngeeee wrote:
A direct family member may ship them also. Father, mother, son, daughter.


Where did you get that information from?


Had a shotgun when I moved up here and was told to have my father just slap it in the mail via UPS by the FFLs I was going to deal with. After reading very carefully though the laws it seemed that way as well when it came to "transfers" in both states it was in.
Interstate transfer of a firearm without an FFL?


Where is the transfer?

I agree that the law is murky on this, or at least can be read in a few different ways. I'd assume common sense meaning and go from there. He owns it when it is here. He owns it when it is mailed. He receives it as the rightful owner.


Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:52 am
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PMB wrote:
Where is the transfer?

I agree that the law is murky on this, or at least can be read in a few different ways. I'd assume common sense meaning and go from there. He owns it when it is here. He owns it when it is mailed. He receives it as the rightful owner.


"ownership" and "control" or "possession" aren't always the same thing in legal definitions.

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MadPick wrote:
Without penetration data, the pics aren't of much use.

Spoiler: show
"Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm -- but the harm does not interest them. Or they do not see it, or they justify it because they are absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves." – T.S. Eliot

"The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction." - St. George Tucker

A careful definition of words would destroy half the agenda of the political left and scrutinizing evidence would destroy the other half. - Thomas Sowell

"To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the innocent and law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless, and that the law will permit them to have only such rights and liberties as the lawless will allow...

For society does not control crime, ever, by forcing the law-abiding to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of criminals. Society controls crime by forcing the criminals to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of the law-abiding." - Jeff Snyder

Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal weapons. The possession of a good rifle, as well as the skill to use it well, truly makes a man the monarch of all he surveys. It realizes the ancient dream of the Jovian thunderbolt, and as such it is the embodiment of personal power. For this reason it exercises a curious influence over the minds of most men, and in its best examples it constitutes an object of affection unmatched by any other inanimate object.

Jeff Cooper
1997 The Art of the Rifle Page 1.

Spoiler: show
SUGGEST CASE BE SUBMITTED ON APPELLANT'S BRIEF. UNABLE TO OBTAIN ANY MONEY FROM CLIENTS TO BE PRESENT & ARGUE BRIEF.

The defense attorney's telegram to the clerk of the Supreme Court, March 29, 1939, in re United States. v. Miller.

You don't need to go to Law School to understand the constitutional implications of that.

“You can’t cut the throat of every cocksucker whose character it would improve.”
Spoiler: show
cityslicker wrote:
I don't want to be told that I can't remove the tree by some tree-hugging pole smoker from the eat-a-dick foundation/Olympia/King County.


Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:01 am
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jdhbulseye wrote:
PMB wrote:
Where is the transfer?

I agree that the law is murky on this, or at least can be read in a few different ways. I'd assume common sense meaning and go from there. He owns it when it is here. He owns it when it is mailed. He receives it as the rightful owner.


"ownership" and "control" or "possession" aren't always the same thing in legal definitions.


Agreed. I will do as I wish within the bounds of my understanding. I am aware that much of law is not enforced by common sense, no matter how it was intended. So be it.


Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:38 am
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Caveat lector is all I'm saying.

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MadPick wrote:
Without penetration data, the pics aren't of much use.

Spoiler: show
"Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm -- but the harm does not interest them. Or they do not see it, or they justify it because they are absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves." – T.S. Eliot

"The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction." - St. George Tucker

A careful definition of words would destroy half the agenda of the political left and scrutinizing evidence would destroy the other half. - Thomas Sowell

"To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the innocent and law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless, and that the law will permit them to have only such rights and liberties as the lawless will allow...

For society does not control crime, ever, by forcing the law-abiding to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of criminals. Society controls crime by forcing the criminals to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of the law-abiding." - Jeff Snyder

Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal weapons. The possession of a good rifle, as well as the skill to use it well, truly makes a man the monarch of all he surveys. It realizes the ancient dream of the Jovian thunderbolt, and as such it is the embodiment of personal power. For this reason it exercises a curious influence over the minds of most men, and in its best examples it constitutes an object of affection unmatched by any other inanimate object.

Jeff Cooper
1997 The Art of the Rifle Page 1.

Spoiler: show
SUGGEST CASE BE SUBMITTED ON APPELLANT'S BRIEF. UNABLE TO OBTAIN ANY MONEY FROM CLIENTS TO BE PRESENT & ARGUE BRIEF.

The defense attorney's telegram to the clerk of the Supreme Court, March 29, 1939, in re United States. v. Miller.

You don't need to go to Law School to understand the constitutional implications of that.

“You can’t cut the throat of every cocksucker whose character it would improve.”
Spoiler: show
cityslicker wrote:
I don't want to be told that I can't remove the tree by some tree-hugging pole smoker from the eat-a-dick foundation/Olympia/King County.


Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:49 am
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Perhaps I'm making up laws in my mind. I'll have to do some research because I can't recall any specific law about mailing firearms between unlicensed persons that would relate to this type of situation.

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Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:34 pm
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You need to look at two aspects of this: State laws regarding transfers, and federal laws regarding interstate transfer of firearms.

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Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:03 pm
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MadPick wrote:
You need to look at two aspects of this: State laws regarding transfers, and federal laws regarding interstate transfer of firearms.
I agree. My thinking is that this is more of a federal issue.

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Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:11 pm
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This is no way advise.I don't know the laws.

If it we're me I would have somebody take your guns apart,stocks off of rifles,slides,ect.break down in two peices, then your sending gun parts instead of a whole gun.Put in package so you don't lose parts.UPS ,not usps and I bet no problem at all.


Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:39 pm
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Hunter399 wrote:
This is no way advise.I don't know the laws.

If it we're me I would have somebody take your guns apart,stocks off of rifles,slides,ect.break down in two peices, then your sending gun parts instead of a whole gun.Put in package so you don't lose parts.UPS ,not usps and I bet no problem at all.



The serial numbered part is still legally a firearm whether its assembled with the rest of the gun or not.

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MadPick wrote:
Without penetration data, the pics aren't of much use.

Spoiler: show
"Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm -- but the harm does not interest them. Or they do not see it, or they justify it because they are absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves." – T.S. Eliot

"The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction." - St. George Tucker

A careful definition of words would destroy half the agenda of the political left and scrutinizing evidence would destroy the other half. - Thomas Sowell

"To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the innocent and law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless, and that the law will permit them to have only such rights and liberties as the lawless will allow...

For society does not control crime, ever, by forcing the law-abiding to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of criminals. Society controls crime by forcing the criminals to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of the law-abiding." - Jeff Snyder

Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal weapons. The possession of a good rifle, as well as the skill to use it well, truly makes a man the monarch of all he surveys. It realizes the ancient dream of the Jovian thunderbolt, and as such it is the embodiment of personal power. For this reason it exercises a curious influence over the minds of most men, and in its best examples it constitutes an object of affection unmatched by any other inanimate object.

Jeff Cooper
1997 The Art of the Rifle Page 1.

Spoiler: show
SUGGEST CASE BE SUBMITTED ON APPELLANT'S BRIEF. UNABLE TO OBTAIN ANY MONEY FROM CLIENTS TO BE PRESENT & ARGUE BRIEF.

The defense attorney's telegram to the clerk of the Supreme Court, March 29, 1939, in re United States. v. Miller.

You don't need to go to Law School to understand the constitutional implications of that.

“You can’t cut the throat of every cocksucker whose character it would improve.”
Spoiler: show
cityslicker wrote:
I don't want to be told that I can't remove the tree by some tree-hugging pole smoker from the eat-a-dick foundation/Olympia/King County.


Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:56 am
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Just to toss another kink out there. Some states require that all firearms entering that state be "processed" by an FFL. Even if you own the weapon and are transporting it to your new residence from another state, the "transfer" (to yourself essentially) has to be done by an FFL in thestate of your new residence.

I believe CA has a law like that to make sure no firearms that are not on their "approved" list are brought into the state.

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Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:14 am
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The CA 'Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale' is a nightmare.
Buddy in CA wanted to buy one of my Wilson Combat 1911's, but it was a no go because the exact model wasn't listed.
Most manufacturers only get a handful of models approved for sale in CA, not worth the hassle for temporary approval of everything they sell. Kahr has 40 allowed handguns, and that's not even everything they sell.

http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/

Here is a list of handguns recently removed from the list because the manufacturer didn't recertify them: (61 pages!)
https://oag.ca.gov/sites/oag.ca.gov/fil ... emoved.pdf

deadshot2 wrote:

I believe CA has a law like that to make sure no firearms that are not on their "approved" list are brought into the state.

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Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:33 am
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deadshot2 wrote:
Just to toss another kink out there. Some states require that all firearms entering that state be "processed" by an FFL. Even if you own the weapon and are transporting it to your new residence from another state, the "transfer" (to yourself essentially) has to be done by an FFL in the state of your new residence.

I believe CA has a law like that to make sure no firearms that are not on their "approved" list are brought into the state.


I'm fairly certain AZ does not have such a requirement. Either way any such requirement, in a sane world, would be a violation of a citizens Amendment 4 right against an unreasonable search of their effects. As well, in my mind, it constitutes an infringement on a citizens rights under the privileges and immunities clause, specifically the right of interstate travel understood to be part of said clause. But we all know we dont live in a sane world that respects peoples rights and property.

_________________
MadPick wrote:
Without penetration data, the pics aren't of much use.

Spoiler: show
"Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm -- but the harm does not interest them. Or they do not see it, or they justify it because they are absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves." – T.S. Eliot

"The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction." - St. George Tucker

A careful definition of words would destroy half the agenda of the political left and scrutinizing evidence would destroy the other half. - Thomas Sowell

"To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the innocent and law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless, and that the law will permit them to have only such rights and liberties as the lawless will allow...

For society does not control crime, ever, by forcing the law-abiding to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of criminals. Society controls crime by forcing the criminals to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of the law-abiding." - Jeff Snyder

Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal weapons. The possession of a good rifle, as well as the skill to use it well, truly makes a man the monarch of all he surveys. It realizes the ancient dream of the Jovian thunderbolt, and as such it is the embodiment of personal power. For this reason it exercises a curious influence over the minds of most men, and in its best examples it constitutes an object of affection unmatched by any other inanimate object.

Jeff Cooper
1997 The Art of the Rifle Page 1.

Spoiler: show
SUGGEST CASE BE SUBMITTED ON APPELLANT'S BRIEF. UNABLE TO OBTAIN ANY MONEY FROM CLIENTS TO BE PRESENT & ARGUE BRIEF.

The defense attorney's telegram to the clerk of the Supreme Court, March 29, 1939, in re United States. v. Miller.

You don't need to go to Law School to understand the constitutional implications of that.

“You can’t cut the throat of every cocksucker whose character it would improve.”
Spoiler: show
cityslicker wrote:
I don't want to be told that I can't remove the tree by some tree-hugging pole smoker from the eat-a-dick foundation/Olympia/King County.


Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:45 am
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jdhbulseye wrote:
Hunter399 wrote:
This is no way advise.I don't know the laws.

If it we're me I would have somebody take your guns apart,stocks off of rifles,slides,ect.break down in two peices, then your sending gun parts instead of a whole gun.Put in package so you don't lose parts.UPS ,not usps and I bet no problem at all.



The serial numbered part is still legally a firearm whether its assembled with the rest of the gun or not.
Ya I know.Reason for breaking down guns is so they fit in a small package .This is not advise ,this may, or may not be legal.Just was my 2 cents.


Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:35 am
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This got convoluted.

Let's start with federal law.
1. Your friend could send them to a dealer in AZ, where you'd have to do a background check to receive them.
2. You could send them to yourself. It's even ok to mail/ship them to the hotel you're staying at if hunting or competing... John Smith, C/O ABC Suites... "only to be opened by the adressee," and there is something similar about mailing to your own home. As long as you are the only one that opens the box. It's in a couple of news letters or open letters the ATF occasionally puts out to better explain the regulations when there are a lot of the same questions or mistakes.


Now add WA state law.
Option 1 is off the table since his taking possession of them is a transfer under state law.

This leaves you coming here and taking them back yourself or shipping them to yourself.


Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:28 am
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jdhbulseye wrote:
deadshot2 wrote:
Just to toss another kink out there. Some states require that all firearms entering that state be "processed" by an FFL. Even if you own the weapon and are transporting it to your new residence from another state, the "transfer" (to yourself essentially) has to be done by an FFL in the state of your new residence.

I believe CA has a law like that to make sure no firearms that are not on their "approved" list are brought into the state.


I'm fairly certain AZ does not have such a requirement. Either way any such requirement, in a sane world, would be a violation of a citizens Amendment 4 right against an unreasonable search of their effects. As well, in my mind, it constitutes an infringement on a citizens rights under the privileges and immunities clause, specifically the right of interstate travel understood to be part of said clause. But we all know we dont live in a sane world that respects peoples rights and property.


The state I had in mind is California. If you move there, as I recall reading once, you can only bring into the state firearms on their approved list. A whole host of pistols and rifles are not on the CA DOJ list and IIRC one had to use an FFL to legally "import" even if they were their own firearms in another state.

The issue is in regards to changing permanent residence from a "Sane" state to California where sanity and reason no longer exists.

_________________
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
" - William Shakespeare


Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:17 am
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