Gun store Shooting Locations It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:57 pm



Rules WGO Chat Room Gear Rent Me Shield NRA SAF CCKRBA
Calendar


Forum rules


Nothing contained in this section shall be construed as legal advice. All members and guests are advised to perform due diligence in regards to laws and legal actions.



Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
 HB1501 - WSP to investigate denied background checks 
Author Message
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: 12 Acres in Eastern WA
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012
Posts: 7251
http://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary?BillN ... &Year=2017


Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:46 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Marysville, WA
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011
Posts: 11581
Real Name: Mike
Dumb question but why aren't the Fed's doing this? Taxpayers are already paying their salaries and wages to enforce this part of Federal Law.

Something tells me about as much effort will be put into this by WSP as the Fed's have. Unless some funding goes with this bill, good luck.

_________________
"I've learned from the Dog that an afternoon nap is a good thing"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
" - William Shakespeare


Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:02 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: 12 Acres in Eastern WA
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012
Posts: 7251
deadshot2 wrote:
Dumb question but why aren't the Fed's doing this? Taxpayers are already paying their salaries and wages to enforce this part of Federal Law.

Something tells me about as much effort will be put into this by WSP as the Fed's have. Unless some funding goes with this bill, good luck.


OSP is doing it based on order from their Gov. No funding issues, it works.

2015 stats: 262,835 bg checks, 2135 denials/investigations, 41 OSP arrests, 116 citations, 745 referred to District Attorney, 463 referred to local jurisdictions


Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:56 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012
Posts: 1367
Seems like a good move, never understood why this wasn't happening.


Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:25 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Marysville, WA
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011
Posts: 11581
Real Name: Mike
ANZAC wrote:
deadshot2 wrote:
Dumb question but why aren't the Fed's doing this? Taxpayers are already paying their salaries and wages to enforce this part of Federal Law.

Something tells me about as much effort will be put into this by WSP as the Fed's have. Unless some funding goes with this bill, good luck.


OSP is doing it based on order from their Gov. No funding issues, it works.

2015 stats: 262,835 bg checks, 2135 denials/investigations, 41 OSP arrests, 116 citations, 745 referred to District Attorney, 463 referred to local jurisdictions


How many charged, tried, convicted, with sentences/fines, etc??

Without a good number of these "violators" actually being punished (preferably to the full extent including fines/sentences) all the numbers you provided are merely "Political Feel Good Fluff".

_________________
"I've learned from the Dog that an afternoon nap is a good thing"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
" - William Shakespeare


Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:43 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Marysville, WA
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011
Posts: 11581
Real Name: Mike
sreyemj wrote:
Seems like a good move, never understood why this wasn't happening.


I agree. However since the Form 4473 is a Federal Form and providing false information on it is a Federal Crime, why aren't the Fed's doing their job.

How many "prohibited persons" that have been denied have criminal backgrounds in other states. Easier for Fed's to do investigations across State Lines.


Last I heard there was a manpower shortage in the WSP. How many more personnel will this take?

As for what Oregon is doing, that's fine for Oregon. Last I knew, this is Washington and it has it's own set of problems to be overcome, especially in the WSP.

_________________
"I've learned from the Dog that an afternoon nap is a good thing"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
" - William Shakespeare


Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:47 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: 12 Acres in Eastern WA
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012
Posts: 7251
deadshot2 wrote:
ANZAC wrote:
deadshot2 wrote:
Dumb question but why aren't the Fed's doing this? Taxpayers are already paying their salaries and wages to enforce this part of Federal Law.

Something tells me about as much effort will be put into this by WSP as the Fed's have. Unless some funding goes with this bill, good luck.


OSP is doing it based on order from their Gov. No funding issues, it works.

2015 stats: 262,835 bg checks, 2135 denials/investigations, 41 OSP arrests, 116 citations, 745 referred to District Attorney, 463 referred to local jurisdictions


How many charged, tried, convicted, with sentences/fines, etc??

Without a good number of these "violators" actually being punished (preferably to the full extent including fines/sentences) all the numbers you provided are merely "Political Feel Good Fluff".


I don't think that info is collected, and some of it can take years, so you wouldn't have an immediate number.

Let's put it this way, investigation and enforcement actions are better than turning a blind eye.


Last edited by ANZAC on Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:17 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012
Posts: 1367
deadshot2 wrote:
sreyemj wrote:
Seems like a good move, never understood why this wasn't happening.


I agree. However since the Form 4473 is a Federal Form and providing false information on it is a Federal Crime, why aren't the Fed's doing their job.


Not sure, but then again I don't understand why the DEA isn't raiding weed growing operations here either.


Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:32 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: West Olympia
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012
Posts: 6816
Real Name: Matt
I would love to know how many slip through the cracks? That is the whole point of a known felon filling out the form isn't it?

_________________
"I'm Hub McCann. I've fought in two World Wars and countless smaller ones on three continents. I led thousands of men into battle with everything from horses and swords to artillery and TANKS! I've seen the headwaters of the Nile, and tribes of natives no white man had ever seen before. I've won and lost a dozen fortunes, KILLED MANY MEN! And loved only one woman, with a passion a FLEA like you could never begin to understand. That's who I am. NOW, GO HOME, BOY!"



"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones". Albert Einstein 1947


Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:53 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Marysville, WA
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011
Posts: 11581
Real Name: Mike
mcyclonegt wrote:
I would love to know how many slip through the cracks? That is the whole point of a known felon filling out the form isn't it?


Rest assured that these numbers won't be released voluntarily. Too embarrassing to those who are charged with seeing to it there is no 'slipping throught the cracks." To release the numbers of those that do would be an admission of incompetence.

_________________
"I've learned from the Dog that an afternoon nap is a good thing"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
" - William Shakespeare


Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:42 am
Profile
Online
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Kentucky
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015
Posts: 11045
There is a thread on this in the 2A Roundtable

I won't link to it because of the first rule of the 2A Roundtable...

_________________
You may be right, I may be crazy, but it just may be a lunatic you're looking for


Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:57 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: 12 Acres in Eastern WA
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012
Posts: 7251
mcyclonegt wrote:
I would love to know how many slip through the cracks? That is the whole point of a known felon filling out the form isn't it?


What is your definition of slipping through the cracks?

Lied on form and got a proceed?
Denied and not investigated?
Lied, denied and not investigated?


Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:23 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Marysville, WA
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011
Posts: 11581
Real Name: Mike
ANZAC wrote:
mcyclonegt wrote:
I would love to know how many slip through the cracks? That is the whole point of a known felon filling out the form isn't it?


What is your definition of slipping through the cracks?

Lied on form and got a proceed?
Denied and not investigated?
Lied, denied and not investigated?


All three are equally egregious.

Clearly all are an example of "slipping through the cracks.

First shows a fault in the data collection system.

Second the glaring lack of interest in Law Enforcement in enforcing the law regarding lying on the form.

Third is same as above but with and extra felony attached.

Courts need to step up their game and report convictions in a more timely manner This IS the age of technology. The Court Clerk should be able to enter convictions, restraining orders, and any other court action that would make one ineligible to own a firearm within minutes of the Judge slamming doen the gavel. FWIW, it took me .81 seconds to contact the NICS site. How much longer would it take to type in the data?

Look at what happened with the Marysville Pilchuck High School Shooting. The tribal court sat on it's information. Other "convictions" were entered throught the Snohomish County Sheriff's Office (no doubt when a clerk got around to it). End result? A prohibited person is allowed to purchase multiple firearms, one of which was used to shoot and kill fellow classmates. The resulting backlash put more pressure on lawfull gun owners and gave steam to the anti-gun railroad.

_________________
"I've learned from the Dog that an afternoon nap is a good thing"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
" - William Shakespeare


Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:07 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Everson, WA
Joined: Sun Jan 6, 2013
Posts: 28149
Real Name: Ace Winky
ANZAC wrote:
mcyclonegt wrote:
I would love to know how many slip through the cracks? That is the whole point of a known felon filling out the form isn't it?


What is your definition of slipping through the cracks?

Lied on form and got a proceed?
Denied and not investigated?
Lied, denied and not investigated?


ALL and why are perfectly law abiding sane citizens who have zero arrests held up or denied?

_________________
Why does the Penguin in Batman sound like a duck?

Because the eagle sounds like a hawk.


Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:11 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: 12 Acres in Eastern WA
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012
Posts: 7251
deadshot2 wrote:
ANZAC wrote:
mcyclonegt wrote:
I would love to know how many slip through the cracks? That is the whole point of a known felon filling out the form isn't it?


What is your definition of slipping through the cracks?

Lied on form and got a proceed?
Denied and not investigated?
Lied, denied and not investigated?


All three are equally egregious.

Clearly all are an example of "slipping through the cracks.

First shows a fault in the data collection system.

Second the glaring lack of interest in Law Enforcement in enforcing the law regarding lying on the form.

Third is same as above but with and extra felony attached.

Courts need to step up their game and report convictions in a more timely manner This IS the age of technology. The Court Clerk should be able to enter convictions, restraining orders, and any other court action that would make one ineligible to own a firearm within minutes of the Judge slamming doen the gavel. FWIW, it took me .81 seconds to contact the NICS site. How much longer would it take to type in the data?


Well, the NICS Improvement Act of 2007 has helped to improve the reporting but there are no consequences for not. That's one of my proposals, is to fine state/local agencies when they fail to report in a timely manner.

But my point about why we don't have the data on the effectiveness of OSP's work is that IF someone is prosecuted, it could take a long time for a final disposition to happen. I agree it should be followed up on, but getting from an investigation to a conviction is always a wandering path. I've worked on homicide cases where we've had unassailable physical evidence (gun with perp prints and DNA and blowback DNA from victim) and the cases take years.

So it is early days yet, but letting people walk without even investigating what is going on, is NOT ok.
BTW it is generally pretty easy to figure out the denials that will get appealed and that they are legit appeals and to move onto the next case.

Quote:
Look at what happened with the Marysville Pilchuck High School Shooting. The tribal court sat on it's information. Other "convictions" were entered throught the Snohomish County Sheriff's Office (no doubt when a clerk got around to it). End result? A prohibited person is allowed to purchase multiple firearms, one of which was used to shoot and kill fellow classmates. The resulting backlash put more pressure on lawfull gun owners and gave steam to the anti-gun railroad.


Completely agree.


Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:33 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 42 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum



Rules WGO Chat Room Gear Rent Me NRA SAF CCKRBA
Calendar


Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software for PTF.
[ Time : 0.625s | 16 Queries | GZIP : Off ]