Shot placement is the key however a 223/5.56 is too small for hunting deer here in Washington State.

No. Too many mule deer and big blacktails, not to mention elk.

.223 is plenty for deer and I hope that WA will allow it some day. If you feel you need a larger caliber then use the one that works best for you.

Having used 5.56 in combat, I would be opposed to changing it.
One of the reasons we only have one 5.56 upper, and the rest of AAC 300 Blackout.
The 125gr pill going 800fps slower has more than enuff to take out anything in this state.

No doubt a 22lr in the hands of a highly skilled poacher or hunter is more lethal than a 300 win mag in the hands of an asshole, but the laws are made for the assholes.

Q.E.D.

I know a lot you think that this caliber is not capable of deer hunting,it is a proven fact that it is and can be a great deer caliber.Do you all know that we already allow 380,9mm,and a lot of small pistol calibers that people already hunt with and you all have no problem with that.Nobody wants this caliber for a ligit reason to keep your ar15 when gun laws come down in this state.And yes I do own a 300blk,243, And many other calibers I just feel where missing out ,when I see regs in other states , And I don't see the same gun laws in those states .

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles ... -for-deer/

http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/huntin ... ils#page-3

http://www.sharetheoutdoors.com/2015/12/23/521/

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?t ... ng.683780/

With the way bullets have changed,If you don't think this caliber is good for deer just Google it ,i could post pics all day but not gonna waste any more time on it.The way I see it your not a good enough hunter to use 223 ,or if just half of you did a little homework on it ,little YouTube , some Google ,maybe you would change your mind.

Haven't seen to many .380's with a 4" barrel, and I wouldn't hunt with it anyway. When I moved to Washington (37 years ago) the Handgun hunting rules were much more strict and I couldn't hunt with my Dan Wesson .357 that I'd used back in Nebraska. Then they changed it and also made it were you could only dispatch wounded big game with a "legal" hunting weapon, which meant no more head shots from my .22 pistol to put the deer out of it's misery (if it was still alive). That's why I carry a .357 when I hunt, for the close shots. I have since harvested one deer in Washington with a .357, which was very effective on the 15-20 yard shot.

I'm in the minority here too, maybe because I have unrealistic expectations of fellow hunters?

Pros:
- works fine when used properly
- less .gov rules, when common sense should apply

Cons:
-lots of people don't exercise common sense thinking.

If .223 was legal as a big game round, I can totally see some utter moron taking an 800 yard shot at a trotting bull elk with it.

So I'm guessing you haven't seen the new 9mm or 380 carbine ,well may be you should Google that too , And yes people are starting to hunt with them,but hay it's ok though.

So...we're going to get a muzzle energy requirement at this rate.

If that keeps dudes from hunting deer with a .380 carbine, good.

Ya wdfw don't wanna do that cause,223 with a 77 grain bullet might have the foot pounds,or muzzle energy to hunt with.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/88872 ... oxes-of-20

I'm 100% in support of ETHICAL hunting.

Shooting the minimum caliber capable of killing a deer is NOT ETHICAL hunting. Just because some people can do it, doesn't mean it should apply across the board.

I'm a great driver with good reflexes and a well maintained vehicle. I can handle speeds faster than the speed limit. However, many drivers cannot. Hence we have lower speed limits than what the best drivers can handle.

Sure a 75gr .223 *can* do the job. But some idiots would use a 55gr and take 800 yard shots, simply wounding the deer, and then being unable to track it and it would die in a ditch somewhere bleeding out for an hour. A bear trap will kill a deer too. Shall we use those?

So, how do you get around this oppressive rule? Simple. I'm 99% sure 99% of hunters have an assortment of .30 caliber rifles. I know I have several up for task. Scoped, ready to go. Or, if you really want to hunt, you spent $500 on a different rifle; heck you can get a bargain $200 bolt action and reuse your scope if cash it tight. So what's the issue?

As has already been made clear from this thread, there are loopholes around any well-intentioned law.

I personally know someone who took a bull elk with a .243. Perfectly legal but took all 5 in the rifle to get the job done.

When I was in HS in the Leavenworth area, we saw way too many dudes from W. WA out there in the mountains hunting with SKSes loaded up with FMJs. Legal but stupid.

Most of the states I see where .223 is legal for big game don't have Roosevelt elk on the list.