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 Change the 24 caliber min in washington for big game hunting 
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I thought FMJ's weren't legal for hunting? It's been a while since I looked at the regs though.

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Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:14 am
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kf7mjf wrote:
I thought FMJ's weren't legal for hunting? It's been a while since I looked at the regs though.


FMJ are legal ,along with 9mm,380, but nobody wants to talk about it.Most of the YouTube you will find, on 223 hunting is woman,and youth hunting,so every time you say no ,your saying no to the future of hunting.As far of the 800 yard shot, I would bet 80 percent of hunter can't hit the side of a barn at 800 with any gun,most hunters have been useing the same box of ammo for years , They don't practice , or even check there rifle for zero every year,then they hit the woods thinking they are a 800 yard sniper.Let hunters make the choice on caliber,distance,ammo.


Last edited by Hunter399 on Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:55 am
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MadPick wrote:
Without penetration data, the pics aren't of much use.

Spoiler: show
"Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm -- but the harm does not interest them. Or they do not see it, or they justify it because they are absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves." – T.S. Eliot

"The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction." - St. George Tucker

A careful definition of words would destroy half the agenda of the political left and scrutinizing evidence would destroy the other half. - Thomas Sowell

"To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the innocent and law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless, and that the law will permit them to have only such rights and liberties as the lawless will allow...

For society does not control crime, ever, by forcing the law-abiding to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of criminals. Society controls crime by forcing the criminals to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of the law-abiding." - Jeff Snyder

Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal weapons. The possession of a good rifle, as well as the skill to use it well, truly makes a man the monarch of all he surveys. It realizes the ancient dream of the Jovian thunderbolt, and as such it is the embodiment of personal power. For this reason it exercises a curious influence over the minds of most men, and in its best examples it constitutes an object of affection unmatched by any other inanimate object.

Jeff Cooper
1997 The Art of the Rifle Page 1.

Spoiler: show
SUGGEST CASE BE SUBMITTED ON APPELLANT'S BRIEF. UNABLE TO OBTAIN ANY MONEY FROM CLIENTS TO BE PRESENT & ARGUE BRIEF.

The defense attorney's telegram to the clerk of the Supreme Court, March 29, 1939, in re United States. v. Miller.

You don't need to go to Law School to understand the constitutional implications of that.

“You can’t cut the throat of every cocksucker whose character it would improve.”
Spoiler: show
cityslicker wrote:
I don't want to be told that I can't remove the tree by some tree-hugging pole smoker from the eat-a-dick foundation/Olympia/King County.


Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:47 am
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Most people aren't going to take you seriously unless you improve your writing skills. Also, no one is saying "no to the future of hunting." by not supporting .223 How many potential hunters in the state of Washington are missing out because they can't use .223 for deer?

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Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:18 am
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dreadi wrote:
Most people aren't going to take you seriously unless you improve your writing skills. Also, no one is saying "no to the future of hunting." by not supporting .223 How many potential hunters in the state of Washington are missing out because they can't use .223 for deer?


Thanks for taking me to school on my English skills ,i see people changing there minds cause of that.

Well I still do not agree with it.The more people you have hunting,man,woman,child,will give you better support in the future ,later down the road .And help against gun control laws,having a light reason to keep your ar15 for a sporting use.
Can you understand my English , or is it still to complex for you to figure out.


Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:06 pm
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Hunter399 wrote:
dreadi wrote:
Most people aren't going to take you seriously unless you improve your writing skills. Also, no one is saying "no to the future of hunting." by not supporting .223 How many potential hunters in the state of Washington are missing out because they can't use .223 for deer?


Thanks for taking me to school on my English skills ,i see people changing there minds cause of that.

Well I still do not agree with it.The more people you have hunting,man,woman,child,will give you better support in the future ,later down the road .And help against gun control laws,having a light reason to keep your ar15 for a sporting use.
Can you understand my English , or is it still to complex for you to figure out.


Calm your tits. He wasn't trying to making it personal or being a dick.

It wasn't a matter of it being complex, it was a matter of it being nearly incomprehensible. Tackle the latter first, then we can work on the former.

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MadPick wrote:
Without penetration data, the pics aren't of much use.

Spoiler: show
"Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm -- but the harm does not interest them. Or they do not see it, or they justify it because they are absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves." – T.S. Eliot

"The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction." - St. George Tucker

A careful definition of words would destroy half the agenda of the political left and scrutinizing evidence would destroy the other half. - Thomas Sowell

"To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the innocent and law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless, and that the law will permit them to have only such rights and liberties as the lawless will allow...

For society does not control crime, ever, by forcing the law-abiding to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of criminals. Society controls crime by forcing the criminals to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of the law-abiding." - Jeff Snyder

Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal weapons. The possession of a good rifle, as well as the skill to use it well, truly makes a man the monarch of all he surveys. It realizes the ancient dream of the Jovian thunderbolt, and as such it is the embodiment of personal power. For this reason it exercises a curious influence over the minds of most men, and in its best examples it constitutes an object of affection unmatched by any other inanimate object.

Jeff Cooper
1997 The Art of the Rifle Page 1.

Spoiler: show
SUGGEST CASE BE SUBMITTED ON APPELLANT'S BRIEF. UNABLE TO OBTAIN ANY MONEY FROM CLIENTS TO BE PRESENT & ARGUE BRIEF.

The defense attorney's telegram to the clerk of the Supreme Court, March 29, 1939, in re United States. v. Miller.

You don't need to go to Law School to understand the constitutional implications of that.

“You can’t cut the throat of every cocksucker whose character it would improve.”
Spoiler: show
cityslicker wrote:
I don't want to be told that I can't remove the tree by some tree-hugging pole smoker from the eat-a-dick foundation/Olympia/King County.


Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:14 pm
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dreadi wrote:
Most people aren't going to take you seriously unless you improve your writing skills. Also, no one is saying "no to the future of hunting." by not supporting .223 How many potential hunters in the state of Washington are missing out because they can't use .223 for deer?


Particularly since .300 Blackout is readily available and a superior choice. If somebody wants to hunt with an AR, they can hunt with a suitable caliber, god knows there are enough of them out there.

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Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:33 pm
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AR-10 308 for the win, if hunting with an AR is desired.
Have hunted with my AK-47 a few times, much easier than a full size rifle climbing through the PNW brush.

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Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:35 pm
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If you can watch this , And still tell me no.Then your lost.

https://youtu.be/5UknRey6BLA

Mule deer doe in Idaho,216 yards,55 grain power soft point.

But ya I guess it won't kill mule deer , your all right ,i guess I'm sorry for trying to tell ya otherwise.

They must have really small deer in Idaho.

That was the most inhumane kill I ever seen.

That deer must of ran for miles and miles.

That woman must be the best shot on the planet.

Woman and young adults would not benefit from 223.


Last edited by Hunter399 on Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.



Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:11 pm
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Hunter399 wrote:
If you can watch this , And still tell me no.Then your lost.

https://youtu.be/5UknRey6BLA

Mule deer doe in Idaho,216 yards,55 grain power soft point.

But ya I guess it won't kill mule deer , your all right ,i guess I'm sorry for trying to tell ya otherwise.



you're*

_________________
MadPick wrote:
Without penetration data, the pics aren't of much use.

Spoiler: show
"Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm -- but the harm does not interest them. Or they do not see it, or they justify it because they are absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves." – T.S. Eliot

"The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction." - St. George Tucker

A careful definition of words would destroy half the agenda of the political left and scrutinizing evidence would destroy the other half. - Thomas Sowell

"To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the innocent and law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless, and that the law will permit them to have only such rights and liberties as the lawless will allow...

For society does not control crime, ever, by forcing the law-abiding to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of criminals. Society controls crime by forcing the criminals to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of the law-abiding." - Jeff Snyder

Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal weapons. The possession of a good rifle, as well as the skill to use it well, truly makes a man the monarch of all he surveys. It realizes the ancient dream of the Jovian thunderbolt, and as such it is the embodiment of personal power. For this reason it exercises a curious influence over the minds of most men, and in its best examples it constitutes an object of affection unmatched by any other inanimate object.

Jeff Cooper
1997 The Art of the Rifle Page 1.

Spoiler: show
SUGGEST CASE BE SUBMITTED ON APPELLANT'S BRIEF. UNABLE TO OBTAIN ANY MONEY FROM CLIENTS TO BE PRESENT & ARGUE BRIEF.

The defense attorney's telegram to the clerk of the Supreme Court, March 29, 1939, in re United States. v. Miller.

You don't need to go to Law School to understand the constitutional implications of that.

“You can’t cut the throat of every cocksucker whose character it would improve.”
Spoiler: show
cityslicker wrote:
I don't want to be told that I can't remove the tree by some tree-hugging pole smoker from the eat-a-dick foundation/Olympia/King County.


Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:28 pm
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jdhbulseye wrote:
Hunter399 wrote:
If you can watch this , And still tell me no.Then your lost.

https://youtu.be/5UknRey6BLA

Mule deer doe in Idaho,216 yards,55 grain power soft point.

But ya I guess it won't kill mule deer , your all right ,i guess I'm sorry for trying to tell ya otherwise.



you're*


You're*


Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:38 pm
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Hunter399 wrote:
jdhbulseye wrote:
Hunter399 wrote:
If you can watch this , And still tell me no.Then your lost.

https://youtu.be/5UknRey6BLA

Mule deer doe in Idaho,216 yards,55 grain power soft point.

But ya I guess it won't kill mule deer , your all right ,i guess I'm sorry for trying to tell ya otherwise.



you're*


You're*


*sigh*

"If you can watch this and still tell me no, then you're lost. Mule Deer doe taken in Idaho with a 55 grain power soft point at 216 yards. But yeah, I guess it won't kill Mule Deer. You're all right, I guess I'm sorry for trying to tell you otherwise." :thumbsup2:

Can we go back to more interesting topics about bullets, shot placement and marginal calibers that may require expert handling to do the job? :bigsmile:

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"...steam, artillery and revolvers give to civilized man an irresistible power." -Perry Collins


Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:53 pm
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I still disagree for some of the same reasons that I would discuss with parents coming in to buy their kids a .243 for their first deer rifle: Since you live in Washington do you think your son or daughter is ever going to want to shoot something bigger then a deer or coyote? Do you think they may ever want to hunt bear or elk down the road? If yes, you may want to get something like a 7mm-08 so you don't have to buy another rifle in a year or two. Don't get me wrong my first rifle was a Model 700 .243 and I loved it. But I lived in Nebraska and a deer was the biggest thing I'd ever see (OK, NOW they have elk). Some people are only going to hunt deer. Some people could harvest a moose with a perfectly placed .22LR shot (right behind the ear, at least that's what our fishing guide told us up in Canada 50 years ago). However the chances of imperfect shots by the majority of hunters and the wasted wildlife that results is, in my opinion, the reason it shouldn't change. With a 7mm Mag I've had game drop in it's tracks and I've also had elk take 2 well placed shots and keep going, but not as far as it would have gone with a less lethal round. But hey, you've got a 30 round mag so who needs to be accurate. Just spray the woods! That's one of the positive things about hunters with a single shot! Make the first one count like its the only one in the gun!!!


Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:35 pm
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chasehooks wrote:
I still disagree for some of the same reasons that I would discuss with parents coming in to buy their kids a .243 for their first deer rifle: Since you live in Washington do you think your son or daughter is ever going to want to shoot something bigger then a deer or coyote? Do you think they may ever want to hunt bear or elk down the road? If yes, you may want to get something like a 7mm-08 so you don't have to buy another rifle in a year or two. Don't get me wrong my first rifle was a Model 700 .243 and I loved it. But I lived in Nebraska and a deer was the biggest thing I'd ever see (OK, NOW they have elk). Some people are only going to hunt deer. Some people could harvest a moose with a perfectly placed .22LR shot (right behind the ear, at least that's what our fishing guide told us up in Canada 50 years ago). However the chances of imperfect shots by the majority of hunters and the wasted wildlife that results is, in my opinion, the reason it shouldn't change. With a 7mm Mag I've had game drop in it's tracks and I've also had elk take 2 well placed shots and keep going, but not as far as it would have gone with a less lethal round. But hey, you've got a 30 round mag so who needs to be accurate. Just spray the woods! That's one of the positive things about hunters with a single shot! Make the first one count like its the only one in the gun!!!


Ya you can save me the sales pitch, now 243 not big enough.Some hunters can do it with a smaller caliber,some can't.It's not how big your tool is,its how you use it :ROFLMAO:
How many archer gut shot animals every year,there's gonna be run off deer ,if you like it or not.

Something else I would like to add if there's so much wasted wildlife from 223 then why do other states allow it still.Can you find a artical or numbers from other states that support your claim ,YouTube video ,something.


Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:53 pm
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Hunter399 wrote:
chasehooks wrote:
I still disagree for some of the same reasons that I would discuss with parents coming in to buy their kids a .243 for their first deer rifle: Since you live in Washington do you think your son or daughter is ever going to want to shoot something bigger then a deer or coyote? Do you think they may ever want to hunt bear or elk down the road? If yes, you may want to get something like a 7mm-08 so you don't have to buy another rifle in a year or two. Don't get me wrong my first rifle was a Model 700 .243 and I loved it. But I lived in Nebraska and a deer was the biggest thing I'd ever see (OK, NOW they have elk). Some people are only going to hunt deer. Some people could harvest a moose with a perfectly placed .22LR shot (right behind the ear, at least that's what our fishing guide told us up in Canada 50 years ago). However the chances of imperfect shots by the majority of hunters and the wasted wildlife that results is, in my opinion, the reason it shouldn't change. With a 7mm Mag I've had game drop in it's tracks and I've also had elk take 2 well placed shots and keep going, but not as far as it would have gone with a less lethal round. But hey, you've got a 30 round mag so who needs to be accurate. Just spray the woods! That's one of the positive things about hunters with a single shot! Make the first one count like its the only one in the gun!!!


Ya you can save me the sales pitch, now 243 not big enough.Some hunters can do it with a smaller caliber,some can't.It's not how big your tool is,its how you use it :ROFLMAO:
How many archer gut shot animals every year,there's gonna be run off deer ,if you like it or not.


It wasn't a sales pitch. It was to get them to think ahead (and possibly save them money). You obviously are set in your opinion. And you're right! There are always going to be idiots trying to shoot deer with: a BB gun, spear gun, blowgun, or any other "gun". Just because its going to happen doesn't mean I have to agree with it and I definitely won't support it! But I like your analogy. It's just like: criminals will always be able to get guns, so just let them have them! :whatthe:


Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:29 pm
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