Gun store Shooting Locations It is currently Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:49 pm

Rules Brads Guns RA I5 Guns & Ammo Killer Innovations WAC
WGO Chat Room Rehv Arms LPG Pintos
Gear COUNTYLINE WCA Fortis 2A Ind.
Calendar



Forum rules


Nothing contained in this section shall be construed as legal advice. All members and guests are advised to perform due diligence in regards to laws and legal actions.



Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
 HB1501 - WSP to investigate denied background checks 
Author Message
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Marysville, WA
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011
Posts: 10929
Real Name: Mike
ANZAC wrote:

But my point about why we don't have the data on the effectiveness of OSP's work is that IF someone is prosecuted, it could take a long time for a final disposition to happen. I agree it should be followed up on, but getting from an investigation to a conviction is always a wandering path. I've worked on homicide cases where we've had unassailable physical evidence (gun with perp prints and DNA and blowback DNA from victim) and the cases take years.

So it is early days yet, but letting people walk without even investigating what is going on, is NOT ok.



That should NEVER be a consideration. When the law is broken those tasked with investigating and charging should NEVER give any consideration to how long the process will take. Only consideration should be "was the law broken or not". If so, investigate and file charges. The rest is up to the Courts.

EVERY denial should at least get a cursory review to determine if it was a legitimate error or more sinister. The rest should go directly into a deeper investigation. Prosecute the intentional deception and penalize the entities that provided inadequate or incorrect information.

Way too much "so what, what are they going to do to us" attitude among reporting agencies.

_________________
"I've learned from the Dog that an afternoon nap is a good thing"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
" - William Shakespeare


Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:46 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Unincorporated King County
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012
Posts: 7016
deadshot2 wrote:
ANZAC wrote:

But my point about why we don't have the data on the effectiveness of OSP's work is that IF someone is prosecuted, it could take a long time for a final disposition to happen. I agree it should be followed up on, but getting from an investigation to a conviction is always a wandering path. I've worked on homicide cases where we've had unassailable physical evidence (gun with perp prints and DNA and blowback DNA from victim) and the cases take years.

So it is early days yet, but letting people walk without even investigating what is going on, is NOT ok.



That should NEVER be a consideration. When the law is broken those tasked with investigating and charging should NEVER give any consideration to how long the process will take. Only consideration should be "was the law broken or not". If so, investigate and file charges. The rest is up to the Courts.

EVERY denial should at least get a cursory review to determine if it was a legitimate error or more sinister. The rest should go directly into a deeper investigation. Prosecute the intentional deception and penalize the entities that provided inadequate or incorrect information.

Way too much "so what, what are they going to do to us" attitude among reporting agencies.


You're confusing two different issues.

My comments above relate to a request for stats that show effectiveness of the OSP program in terms of convictions. Re-read my first sentence.
Early days for that.

I agree with you that if someone is convicted the data should promptly be submitted to the NICS by the local agency.


Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:58 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: West Olympia
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012
Posts: 4982
Real Name: Matt
ANZAC wrote:
mcyclonegt wrote:
I would love to know how many slip through the cracks? That is the whole point of a known felon filling out the form isn't it?


What is your definition of slipping through the cracks?

Lied on form and got a proceed?
Denied and not investigated?
Lied, denied and not investigated?


Simple, felon gets a gun. That can be from lying and getting a proceed or lying and getting past the ten days or whatever it is. Then they get to pick up the gun without a proceed. Mainly the latter. I don't imagine too many felons get a proceed.

_________________
"I'm Hub McCann. I've fought in two World Wars and countless smaller ones on three continents. I led thousands of men into battle with everything from horses and swords to artillery and TANKS! I've seen the headwaters of the Nile, and tribes of natives no white man had ever seen before. I've won and lost a dozen fortunes, KILLED MANY MEN! And loved only one woman, with a passion a FLEA like you could never begin to understand. That's who I am. NOW, GO HOME, BOY!"



"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones". Albert Einstein 1947


Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:59 pm
Profile
User avatar

Location: East Renton Plateau
Joined: Mon Jul 4, 2011
Posts: 401
If the authorities follow up on any of it they lose the ability to use the "xxx,xxx denials prevented a bad person from getting a gun therefore the brady law is pure awesomeness" line of BS

Sent from my SM-T817T using Tapatalk


Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:17 pm
Profile
Online
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Duvall
Joined: Sat Jan 5, 2013
Posts: 9831
Real Name: Ace Tenemem Reroader
1811GNR wrote:
If the authorities follow up on any of it they lose the ability to use the "xxx,xxx denials prevented a bad person from getting a gun therefore the brady law is pure awesomeness" line of BS



I keep telling myself they are not that evil/vindictive/manipulative and they keep proving me wrong.

I think some of them are so stupid they actually think they are helping prevent real crime.

_________________
Charlie don't surf for his hamburger Momma


Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:25 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Marysville, WA
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011
Posts: 10929
Real Name: Mike
ANZAC wrote:
I agree with you that if someone is convicted the data should promptly be submitted to the NICS by the local agency.


Can you explain why it isn't being done promptly? Didn't we recently discuss a "backlog" of entries to the NICS recently? Perhaps the NICS should adopt the same system Auto Insurance Companies use. Get a ticket and it seems like they have a notice of premium increase or cancellation in the mail in a matter of days (well perhaps a bit of an exaggeration) while we read more and more accounts of how delayed reporting has allowed one to slip through the cracks due to reporting lag.

Seems to me that any agency that delays gives up their right criticize a system that lets felons obtain firearms even by lying on the 4473. Same for those who have DV TRO's against them.

_________________
"I've learned from the Dog that an afternoon nap is a good thing"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
" - William Shakespeare


Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:29 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Unincorporated King County
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012
Posts: 7016
deadshot2 wrote:
Can you explain why it isn't being done promptly?


Every agency is different. The NICS Improvement Act of 2007 (it has been renewed/re-funded a few times) offers grants to states working on improving their feeds to the NICS.

Here's all the info: https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=49

Quote:
Didn't we recently discuss a "backlog" of entries to the NICS recently?


The backlog was on background check denial appeals I thought.


Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:38 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Unincorporated King County
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012
Posts: 7016
And it is back....

http://www.king5.com/news/politics/sena ... /433001920


Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:36 pm
Profile
Site Moderator
User avatar
Site Moderator

Location: Ballard
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011
Posts: 6010
Real Name: Ben (obviously)
Awesome! I consider it a win.

_________________
"Those who 'abjure' violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf." - George Orwell (1945)

Looking for an inexpensive/easy place to transfer your gun legally? Check out this list of FFLs!


Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:44 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Location: Seatac
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011
Posts: 1918
Real Name: Chester
It takes months to get the results back from the FBI when a person appeals a wrongful denial. How will the state investigate it? They can do the state criminal and mental health checks, but will they be able to do the federal checks? Sometimes the only difference between a wrongful denial and a proceed is a set of fingerprints. That could be easy. But will the state patrol arrest the person during the check? Will that person lose their job if they have a security clearance or work someplace that requires a clean record like security or childcare workers... they do fingerprints for those so the chances of a false denial are much lower than the name and DOB based check that is NICS. Like the intelligence officer who was a victim of identity theft. Everything matches a criminal record because it was his information the criminal used... only fingerprints showed he was a different person when he did his UPIN... and fingerprints and a person knocking on doors when he got is TS-SCI. Or the lady who received a denial because her married name matched a criminal who was from the same city... a very strange coincidence. How will the state figure out the guy who has his CPL and received several proceeds before getting a denial, that was then overturned, got a proceed for his next purchase, then another denial? Because a court in PA was fucked up and never took something off his record that wasn't supposed to be there. Will the WSP get these all done overnight at the latest? Or will the guy who owns a security company have to go bankrupt because he's under investigation for something he didn't do?


Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:13 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: South Soundish
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012
Posts: 8810
I have seen a nics check get a proceed but state check gets a denial.

final bill

http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/ ... 1-S.SL.pdf

_________________
Image

Yaki's - last journey

Promote a Growth Mindset. Don't let a fixed mindset not allow change for the better.

pow·er trip - noun - a self-aggrandizing quest for ever-increasing control over others.


Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:35 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum



Rent Me Pintos NRA SAF CCKRBA
Aldersons UPAMMO


Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software for PTF.
[ Time : 1.280s | 18 Queries | GZIP : On ]