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 HB1501 - WSP to investigate denied background checks 
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http://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary?BillN ... &Year=2017


Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:46 pm
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Dumb question but why aren't the Fed's doing this? Taxpayers are already paying their salaries and wages to enforce this part of Federal Law.

Something tells me about as much effort will be put into this by WSP as the Fed's have. Unless some funding goes with this bill, good luck.

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Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:02 pm
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deadshot2 wrote:
Dumb question but why aren't the Fed's doing this? Taxpayers are already paying their salaries and wages to enforce this part of Federal Law.

Something tells me about as much effort will be put into this by WSP as the Fed's have. Unless some funding goes with this bill, good luck.


OSP is doing it based on order from their Gov. No funding issues, it works.

2015 stats: 262,835 bg checks, 2135 denials/investigations, 41 OSP arrests, 116 citations, 745 referred to District Attorney, 463 referred to local jurisdictions


Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:56 pm
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Seems like a good move, never understood why this wasn't happening.


Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:25 am
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ANZAC wrote:
deadshot2 wrote:
Dumb question but why aren't the Fed's doing this? Taxpayers are already paying their salaries and wages to enforce this part of Federal Law.

Something tells me about as much effort will be put into this by WSP as the Fed's have. Unless some funding goes with this bill, good luck.


OSP is doing it based on order from their Gov. No funding issues, it works.

2015 stats: 262,835 bg checks, 2135 denials/investigations, 41 OSP arrests, 116 citations, 745 referred to District Attorney, 463 referred to local jurisdictions


How many charged, tried, convicted, with sentences/fines, etc??

Without a good number of these "violators" actually being punished (preferably to the full extent including fines/sentences) all the numbers you provided are merely "Political Feel Good Fluff".

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Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:43 am
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sreyemj wrote:
Seems like a good move, never understood why this wasn't happening.


I agree. However since the Form 4473 is a Federal Form and providing false information on it is a Federal Crime, why aren't the Fed's doing their job.

How many "prohibited persons" that have been denied have criminal backgrounds in other states. Easier for Fed's to do investigations across State Lines.


Last I heard there was a manpower shortage in the WSP. How many more personnel will this take?

As for what Oregon is doing, that's fine for Oregon. Last I knew, this is Washington and it has it's own set of problems to be overcome, especially in the WSP.

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Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:47 am
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deadshot2 wrote:
ANZAC wrote:
deadshot2 wrote:
Dumb question but why aren't the Fed's doing this? Taxpayers are already paying their salaries and wages to enforce this part of Federal Law.

Something tells me about as much effort will be put into this by WSP as the Fed's have. Unless some funding goes with this bill, good luck.


OSP is doing it based on order from their Gov. No funding issues, it works.

2015 stats: 262,835 bg checks, 2135 denials/investigations, 41 OSP arrests, 116 citations, 745 referred to District Attorney, 463 referred to local jurisdictions


How many charged, tried, convicted, with sentences/fines, etc??

Without a good number of these "violators" actually being punished (preferably to the full extent including fines/sentences) all the numbers you provided are merely "Political Feel Good Fluff".


I don't think that info is collected, and some of it can take years, so you wouldn't have an immediate number.

Let's put it this way, investigation and enforcement actions are better than turning a blind eye.


Last edited by ANZAC on Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:17 am
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deadshot2 wrote:
sreyemj wrote:
Seems like a good move, never understood why this wasn't happening.


I agree. However since the Form 4473 is a Federal Form and providing false information on it is a Federal Crime, why aren't the Fed's doing their job.


Not sure, but then again I don't understand why the DEA isn't raiding weed growing operations here either.


Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:32 am
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I would love to know how many slip through the cracks? That is the whole point of a known felon filling out the form isn't it?

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Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:53 am
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mcyclonegt wrote:
I would love to know how many slip through the cracks? That is the whole point of a known felon filling out the form isn't it?


Rest assured that these numbers won't be released voluntarily. Too embarrassing to those who are charged with seeing to it there is no 'slipping throught the cracks." To release the numbers of those that do would be an admission of incompetence.

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Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:42 am
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There is a thread on this in the 2A Roundtable

I won't link to it because of the first rule of the 2A Roundtable...

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Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:57 pm
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mcyclonegt wrote:
I would love to know how many slip through the cracks? That is the whole point of a known felon filling out the form isn't it?


What is your definition of slipping through the cracks?

Lied on form and got a proceed?
Denied and not investigated?
Lied, denied and not investigated?


Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:23 pm
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ANZAC wrote:
mcyclonegt wrote:
I would love to know how many slip through the cracks? That is the whole point of a known felon filling out the form isn't it?


What is your definition of slipping through the cracks?

Lied on form and got a proceed?
Denied and not investigated?
Lied, denied and not investigated?


All three are equally egregious.

Clearly all are an example of "slipping through the cracks.

First shows a fault in the data collection system.

Second the glaring lack of interest in Law Enforcement in enforcing the law regarding lying on the form.

Third is same as above but with and extra felony attached.

Courts need to step up their game and report convictions in a more timely manner This IS the age of technology. The Court Clerk should be able to enter convictions, restraining orders, and any other court action that would make one ineligible to own a firearm within minutes of the Judge slamming doen the gavel. FWIW, it took me .81 seconds to contact the NICS site. How much longer would it take to type in the data?

Look at what happened with the Marysville Pilchuck High School Shooting. The tribal court sat on it's information. Other "convictions" were entered throught the Snohomish County Sheriff's Office (no doubt when a clerk got around to it). End result? A prohibited person is allowed to purchase multiple firearms, one of which was used to shoot and kill fellow classmates. The resulting backlash put more pressure on lawfull gun owners and gave steam to the anti-gun railroad.

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Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:07 am
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ANZAC wrote:
mcyclonegt wrote:
I would love to know how many slip through the cracks? That is the whole point of a known felon filling out the form isn't it?


What is your definition of slipping through the cracks?

Lied on form and got a proceed?
Denied and not investigated?
Lied, denied and not investigated?


ALL and why are perfectly law abiding sane citizens who have zero arrests held up or denied?

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Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:11 am
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deadshot2 wrote:
ANZAC wrote:
mcyclonegt wrote:
I would love to know how many slip through the cracks? That is the whole point of a known felon filling out the form isn't it?


What is your definition of slipping through the cracks?

Lied on form and got a proceed?
Denied and not investigated?
Lied, denied and not investigated?


All three are equally egregious.

Clearly all are an example of "slipping through the cracks.

First shows a fault in the data collection system.

Second the glaring lack of interest in Law Enforcement in enforcing the law regarding lying on the form.

Third is same as above but with and extra felony attached.

Courts need to step up their game and report convictions in a more timely manner This IS the age of technology. The Court Clerk should be able to enter convictions, restraining orders, and any other court action that would make one ineligible to own a firearm within minutes of the Judge slamming doen the gavel. FWIW, it took me .81 seconds to contact the NICS site. How much longer would it take to type in the data?


Well, the NICS Improvement Act of 2007 has helped to improve the reporting but there are no consequences for not. That's one of my proposals, is to fine state/local agencies when they fail to report in a timely manner.

But my point about why we don't have the data on the effectiveness of OSP's work is that IF someone is prosecuted, it could take a long time for a final disposition to happen. I agree it should be followed up on, but getting from an investigation to a conviction is always a wandering path. I've worked on homicide cases where we've had unassailable physical evidence (gun with perp prints and DNA and blowback DNA from victim) and the cases take years.

So it is early days yet, but letting people walk without even investigating what is going on, is NOT ok.
BTW it is generally pretty easy to figure out the denials that will get appealed and that they are legit appeals and to move onto the next case.

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Look at what happened with the Marysville Pilchuck High School Shooting. The tribal court sat on it's information. Other "convictions" were entered throught the Snohomish County Sheriff's Office (no doubt when a clerk got around to it). End result? A prohibited person is allowed to purchase multiple firearms, one of which was used to shoot and kill fellow classmates. The resulting backlash put more pressure on lawfull gun owners and gave steam to the anti-gun railroad.


Completely agree.


Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:33 am
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