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Discussion or advice on how to create an Illegal NFA item will result in an immediate ban. No advice given within should replace user due diligence. Always consult a lawyer / professional.



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 Why a trust? 
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Appreciate the discussion. I have an email out to NW Gun Law Group to see if they have further advice beyond the "you gotta have one of these!" marketing stuff that's on their site.


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Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:46 pm
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A few things to consider:

Having a trust keeps it out of probate. Doesn't go through that system at all.

If your wife has access to the SBR while your not there she's in violation.

Trusts don't have to be expensive. I wrote my own. It's not rocket science.


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Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:39 pm
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RocketScott wrote:
It's not rocket science.


Your credibility in this respect is . . . suspect. :bigsmile:

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Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:41 pm
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edogg wrote:
Appreciate the discussion. I have an email out to NW Gun Law Group to see if they have further advice beyond the "you gotta have one of these!" marketing stuff that's on their site.


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Prediction "Are you ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN YOU ARE CAPABLE OF DOING EVERYTHING RIGHT ON YOUR OWN PLEBE? DO YOU WANT YOUR CHILDREN SENT TO PRISON FOR LIFE SOMEDAY BECAUSE THEY SNEEZED ON YOUR SUPPRESSOR? For only $99.99 you can get the tinfoil trust and upgrade it to the full on gold plated cadmium diamond sparkle trust at any time. Give us money because our marketing department needs paid and the photocopier we run these things off of is out of toner."

RocketScott wrote:
It's not rocket science.


With a user name like yours I am inclined to trust you without further questioning.

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Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:45 pm
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kf7mjf wrote:
edogg wrote:
Appreciate the discussion. I have an email out to NW Gun Law Group to see if they have further advice beyond the "you gotta have one of these!" marketing stuff that's on their site.


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Prediction "Are you ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN YOU ARE CAPABLE OF DOING EVERYTHING RIGHT ON YOUR OWN PLEBE? DO YOU WANT YOUR CHILDREN SENT TO PRISON FOR LIFE SOMEDAY BECAUSE THEY SNEEZED ON YOUR SUPPRESSOR? For only $99.99 you can get the tinfoil trust and upgrade it to the full on gold plated cadmium diamond sparkle trust at any time. Give us money because our marketing department needs paid and the photocopier we run these things off of is out of toner."

RocketScott wrote:
It's not rocket science.


With a user name like yours I am inclined to trust you without further questioning.


:reaction: :runforthehills:

SBR sneeze! We are all going to Prison. :ROFLMAO:

In reality, a trust was needed if you resided in King County (and other area's) prior to the law change last July.

Now? Not so much. For estate purposes as mentioned previously, plus other reasons mentioned, it still makes sense for some of us who are a little more cautious and not so optimistic in regards to future legislation or changes made by the ATF.

Not being a wordsmith, i wouldn't attempt to write my own Trust personally. Having the peace of mind that a trust written by a firearms attorney is legally binding and protects my property and family is well worth it in my opinion.

As i stated earlier, each to their own.

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Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:00 pm
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I have a group legal membership. For comparison purposes, I will probably reach out to one of their estate lawyers. It would be nice if there's a 2A lawyer in their system too.


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Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:31 pm
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usrifle wrote:
kf7mjf wrote:
edogg wrote:
Appreciate the discussion. I have an email out to NW Gun Law Group to see if they have further advice beyond the "you gotta have one of these!" marketing stuff that's on their site.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Prediction "Are you ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN YOU ARE CAPABLE OF DOING EVERYTHING RIGHT ON YOUR OWN PLEBE? DO YOU WANT YOUR CHILDREN SENT TO PRISON FOR LIFE SOMEDAY BECAUSE THEY SNEEZED ON YOUR SUPPRESSOR? For only $99.99 you can get the tinfoil trust and upgrade it to the full on gold plated cadmium diamond sparkle trust at any time. Give us money because our marketing department needs paid and the photocopier we run these things off of is out of toner."

RocketScott wrote:
It's not rocket science.


With a user name like yours I am inclined to trust you without further questioning.


:reaction: :runforthehills:

SBR sneeze! We are all going to Prison. :ROFLMAO:

In reality, a trust was needed if you resided in King County (and other area's) prior to the law change last July.

Now? Not so much. For estate purposes as mentioned previously, plus other reasons mentioned, it still makes sense for some of us who are a little more cautious and not so optimistic in regards to future legislation or changes made by the ATF.

Not being a wordsmith, i wouldn't attempt to write my own Trust personally. Having the peace of mind that a trust written by a firearms attorney is legally binding and protects my property and family is well worth it in my opinion.

As i stated earlier, each to their own.


I don't want to give the wrong impression. Writing it myself was certainly not quick and easy. I spent a lot of time on it.

There are plenty of resources online for info and sample trusts for free. That's where I started.

I read through the WA revised code for what the state requires, which is surprisingly little but it was good to check. Fun Fact: A trust in WA can be verbal as long as you have two witnesses.

I also looked up trusts that have been filed with the county records office to see how others were written locally.

Integrating all the necessary components wasn't as simple as cutting and pasting. Every word is critical and they all have to jive.

I'd never fault someone for simply buying a trust. Most people don't have the time and/or patience to do it themselves.

Some of trusts for sale seem better than others. One fallacy I saw when looking at other trusts was that more words is better. Some guys seemed to think that their trust was better because it's X pages longer. Having all the NFA laws spelled out in the gun specific trusts I looked at was common. It's somewhat unnecessary filler but I 'm sure the lawyers throw it in there to make people feel better about dropping hundreds of dollars on it. One trust I looked at had the same damn law stated three different times, adding about 4 pages. My trust ended up being 10 pages long including a schedule A and B. Schedule A is an inventory schedule and schedule B is a disbursement schedule. Only a few of the trusts I looked at did it that way. If you only have one person to leave your stuff to it's not necessary but I wanted the option to be able give specific items to specific people. It's hard to leave half of a suppressor to someone.

Although there are wrong ways to do a trust there are plenty of 'right ways' to go about it too. It all depends on your circumstances and what you want to accomplish with it as far as estate planning goes.

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Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:33 am
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If you cannot afford or do not want the trust go ahead. It is just like anything in life.

Such as this;

The Physician I work for finally, in a fit of frustration, told the patient; "You know what you do not have to take the medications I prescribe for you for your high blood pressure and diabetes you can take your chances".

This topic continues to be beat into the ground over and over and over. There are plenty of info on this specific topic in other threads if you just scroll down.

Why don't you go to a NFA dealer and have a good conversation with them and get the opinion form the dealer that sells these items. Jody at REHV ARMS would be happy to help you. I understand, never been there yet, Pantel is a good place also. It is a commitment to have a NFA item, that is my sole opinion.

Good luck

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Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:27 pm
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To sell the rifle, it would be easier to revert it back to a regular rifle and sell it that way.

I think it goes like this:

Sell upper separately.
Send notification to the atf that you are revertinh the sbr status of the rifle.
Sell lower as a regular rifle.


Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:40 pm
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SFCRMSA wrote:

The Physician I work for finally, in a fit of frustration, told the patient; "You know what you do not have to take the medications I prescribe for you for your high blood pressure and diabetes you can take your chances".



This is a good analogy of why I'm struggling with a trust.

In the example, the result is clear: higher risk of disease if he patient doesn't take their meds.

With a trust, I haven't seen many clear cases for the need. Hence the reason for my post in the first place. Help me see the light!

Without a trust, if I die before my wife, she fills out a form 5 and transfers the gun away. If we die together, our executor does the same. I can simply put this instruction in my will, easy peasy and save $500. Plus I don't need to bother my wife with getting fingerprinted and such. (Oddly enough, NW Gun Law Group must not be aware of this as they told me that my wife would be an accidental felon if I die and she wasn't on the trust)

Without a trust, I can't let my buddy take the gun out to the range. That's fine. I wouldn't do that anyway.

Without a trust, I engrave my name on the gun rather than a cool/funny trust name. I'm ok with that.

So, what am I missing? Where's the ROI?


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Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:21 pm
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kf7mjf wrote:
edogg wrote:
Appreciate the discussion. I have an email out to NW Gun Law Group to see if they have further advice beyond the "you gotta have one of these!" marketing stuff that's on their site.


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Prediction "Are you ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN YOU ARE CAPABLE OF DOING EVERYTHING RIGHT ON YOUR OWN PLEBE? DO YOU WANT YOUR CHILDREN SENT TO PRISON FOR LIFE SOMEDAY BECAUSE THEY SNEEZED ON YOUR SUPPRESSOR? For only $99.99 you can get the tinfoil trust and upgrade it to the full on gold plated cadmium diamond sparkle trust at any time. Give us money because our marketing department needs paid and the photocopier we run these things off of is out of toner."


Your prediction was close. She definitely said that she can't tell me whether I need a trust. But she did say that if I die, my wife becomes an accidental felon. Not sure if she was aware of the ATF letter you linked to or if she was ignoring it for sales purposes. I suppose the letter's wording is a little grey with the "reasonable time" bit. But still lays out the process.

Also, the price has gone up to $650 for their silver trust. But there's a discount for going to one of their regularly scheduled group sessions and it's only $500.


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Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:30 pm
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Yeah, the ATF literally has a form for just that scenario. Third choice in the box on the top left. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/form/ ... 5/download

So if she says your wife becomes an accidental felon, she's a lying sack of shit, because the procedures are in place to provide for a smooth transfer of ownership of NFA items to an heir.

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Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:59 am
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kf7mjf wrote:
So if she says your wife becomes an accidental felon, she's a lying sack of shit, because the procedures are in place to provide for a smooth transfer of ownership of NFA items to an heir.


Or she could simply be mistaken.

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Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:13 am
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Given the way they market and sell their product, my money is on outright misrepresentation.

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Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:16 am
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kf7mjf wrote:
Given the way they market and sell their product, my money is on outright misrepresentation.


Holy smokes... It just now occurred to me that marketing could be why some guys are such complete , ahem, Warriors (!) when it comes to this topic.

That would explain a lot.

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Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:20 am
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