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Discussion or advice on how to create an Illegal NFA item will result in an immediate ban. No advice given within should replace user due diligence. Always consult a lawyer / professional.



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 Why a trust? 
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I'm buying a pistol which I plan to turn into an SBR. I've read the NW Gun Law Group's website but am still unclear if a trust is right for me.

I don't plan on sharing the gun except to let my dad and maybe a friend or two try it at the range. I will keep possession and won't loan it to anyone.

I do want to make sure that my wife can sell the gun in the event I die. She will have no interest in using it herself. I have a will already which basically gives all my stuff to her or a financial trust if she goes with me.

Adding a trust seems overly complicated and an unnecessary expense. But I want to make sure that my wife or kids don't become an accidental felon when I build this thing.


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Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:05 am
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Real Name: Ric
The fact you want your wife to have your NFA items in the event of your death is a good reason for a trust. The trust let's you name heirs to receive your NFA items.



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Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:48 pm
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I want my wife or other heirs to be able to deal with selling my SBR. She has no interest in it.


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Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:53 pm
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You are already investing a chunk into the SBR, might as well cover your ass and your heir's collective asses. Worth the $99.


Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:31 pm
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Don't need a trust for an heir to inherit NFA items. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/trans ... s/download

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Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:36 pm
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beckdw wrote:
You are already investing a chunk into the SBR, might as well cover your ass and your heir's collective asses. Worth the $99.


See that's the thing. I don't understand how it covers my ass if the SBR is registered to me already.

And if my wife never takes possession of it while I'm alive, then I don't think she's at risk.

Is it true that I have to get sign off from the police chief on my individual application but not if I have a trust? If so, then that might be worth a bronze trust right there. A cursory review of the Form 1 form shows police notification rather than approval.


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Last edited by edogg on Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:02 pm
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kf7mjf wrote:
Don't need a trust for an heir to inherit NFA items. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/trans ... s/download


Great info from the horse's mouth. Thank you.


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Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:02 pm
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edogg wrote:
beckdw wrote:
You are already investing a chunk into the SBR, might as well cover your ass and your heir's collective asses. Worth the $99.


See that's the thing. I don't understand how it covers my ass if the SBR is registered to me already.

And if my wife never takes possession of it while I'm alive, then I don't think she's at risk.

Is it true that I have to get sign off from the police chief on my individual application but not if I have a trust? If so, then that might be worth a bronze trust right there. A cursory review of the Form 1 form shows police notification rather than approval.


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You need CLEO notification now instead of a signoff trust or no. https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/doc ... f/download Trusts used to be a handy way to get around getting a CLEO signature as many would not sign off for NFA items.

There is no real point for trusts outside of asset management anymore IMHO and I am also in the distinct minority locally that has held these multi tier trusts marketed locally as a glorified scam designed to prey on the (deliberately propagated) misunderstandings and fears of gun owners when it comes to NFA items, and a fantastic way to sell what is precious little more than legal boilerplate at premium prices to a market that is taught to be afraid and confused of NFA regulations by the very people pimping the trusts.

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Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:11 pm
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kf7mjf wrote:
Don't need a trust for an heir to inherit NFA items. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/trans ... s/download


That's true, but....

"For registered NFA firearms in the estate, the executor should take action as soon as possible to
arrange for the proper registration of the firearms. Possession of an NFA firearm not registered to
the possessor is a violation of Federal law and the firearm is subject to seizure and forfeiture.
However, we do allow the executor a reasonable time to arrange for the transfer of the registered
firearms in a decedent’s estate.
This generally should be done before probate is closed"

"Reasonable time"....yeah, they get to decide what that is.

The trust takes care of that issue, especially if it was executed prior to July 13th of 2016 and shows the heirs on it.

I still use a Trust, even though i don't have to. Hell, on an SBR build i still use a Form 4 and have Pantel do it.

I don't want my name, (The Trust name) on the registered NFA item. I prefer it to say something cleaner, like

"Pantel Tactical, Renton, WA"

I have done three Form 1's, but they are home built cans and i don't care with those items.

Just my .02

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Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:32 pm
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Heretic! ;)

I guess that one downside is that the engraving will be a little more boring since it will just be my name on it.


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Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:33 pm
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It's not in their best interest to hover around an estate with a stopwatch. And if an executor can't fill out a form before probate is closed when dealing with important things like NFA items, I'd say there are deeper problems than theoretical guessings about what a "reasonable time" is.

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Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:34 pm
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kf7mjf wrote:
It's not in their best interest to hover around an estate with a stopwatch. And if an executor can't fill out a form before probate is closed when dealing with important things like NFA items, I'd say there are deeper problems than theoretical guessings about what a "reasonable time" is.


It might matter in the Political and Law climate at the time though....things do change. Theoretically, of course. :wink05:

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Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:36 pm
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And theoretically if your executor is so fucking stupid as to not to be able to file a simple form before probate concerning NFA items, then theoretically your estate is probably in the wrong theoretical hands.

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Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:41 pm
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One thing that might help is to include a note with the will with instructions on what to do. The executor might not know about NFA transfers. To them it could be just a gun in the collection.


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Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:47 pm
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kf7mjf wrote:
And theoretically if your executor is so fucking stupid as to not to be able to file a simple form before probate concerning NFA items, then theoretically your estate is probably in the wrong theoretical hands.


I think you are missing my point. (Edogg covers part of the below with his post above)

Maybe the stupid fucking Executor knows nothing about Firearms and has no idea what an SBR even is? Or that a Form 5 is even required?

Plus, The ATF ruling and the Law may have changed at the time of the registered individuals passing.

The ATF may not allow the Form 5 Transfer to an heir at that future date, maybe then it would have to be surrendered.

Who knows? A trust that was in place before then would likely be "grandfathered", though that may eventually change too.

Of course yours and my theoretical musings could be completely wrong, but i do Know at this point the Trust allows legal transfer.

Each to their own on this subject, do what you feel comfortable with.

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Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:56 pm
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