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Discussion or advice on how to create an Illegal NFA item will result in an immediate ban. No advice given within should replace user due diligence. Always consult a lawyer / professional.



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 Need a trust 
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joao01 wrote:
ppsh41 wrote:
https://silencerco.com/nfa-trust/ SilencerCo is offering a $10 EasyTrust discount enter the code ETRUST10


Man, I read it as they were offering a trust for $10. Only a $10 discount is less enticing.


Easytrust- $129.00

https://www.store.silencerco.com/products/nfatrust
The EasyTrust is 50-state legal. The process of ratification will differ by state, but we’ll send you a document detailing the processes you’ll need to follow. We priced the EasyTrust at $129.99 – a fraction of the cost of typical gun trusts – to make it accessible to everyone. Reject the idea that a trust is a luxury item. In reality, it’s a must-have for anyone looking to #FightTheNoise.

Just posted the $97.00 Bronze guntrust thumbsup
If you are trying to save some $$
Cheaper than the old...EasyTrust

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There are times when the situation as it occurs, dictates the course of actions that follow.

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Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:03 am
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Having bought the $97 Bronze Trust from NW Gun Law Group, I will say that in hindsight it was not the best choice. It's relatively inexpensive, but it does not provide for naming any trustees. It's sort of a quick-and-dirty way to get into NFA items without having to obtain CLEO approval. But I would encourage others seeking to form a trust to put a little more thought into it than I did. Think about estate planning, sharing NFA items with family/friends, owning NFA items in multiple states, etc. There's more to the NFA game than the purchase & application process.


Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:41 am
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Guns4Liberty wrote:
Having bought the $97 Bronze Trust from NW Gun Law Group, I will say that in hindsight it was not the best choice. It's relatively inexpensive, but it does not provide for naming any trustees. It's sort of a quick-and-dirty way to get into NFA items without having to obtain CLEO approval. But I would encourage others seeking to form a trust to put a little more thought into it than I did. Think about estate planning, sharing NFA items with family/friends, owning NFA items in multiple states, etc. There's more to the NFA game than the purchase & application process.


I was having that very thought this morning. The Silver or higher trust seems to be what I'd want, and at the moment I don't have the budget for those. For the moment, best to avoid NFA altogether (for me).

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Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:56 am
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joao01 wrote:
Guns4Liberty wrote:
Having bought the $97 Bronze Trust from NW Gun Law Group, I will say that in hindsight it was not the best choice. It's relatively inexpensive, but it does not provide for naming any trustees. It's sort of a quick-and-dirty way to get into NFA items without having to obtain CLEO approval. But I would encourage others seeking to form a trust to put a little more thought into it than I did. Think about estate planning, sharing NFA items with family/friends, owning NFA items in multiple states, etc. There's more to the NFA game than the purchase & application process.


I was having that very thought this morning. The Silver or higher trust seems to be what I'd want, and at the moment I don't have the budget for those. For the moment, best to avoid NFA altogether (for me).


NFA items are not going anywhere, IMHO I think the market is getting better because as more states allow these items more easily for private citizens. So if you do not get one now, there will be opportunity in the future to get one. Also NFA items become more popular, industry and market gets better, availability will continue to get better and prices may be better too.
Also, general better understanding for those who are not informed.
I am gearing up for possible Short Barrel Shotgun legislation that may get passed next year. A rumor I recently heard.

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"Dedication, perseverance, commitment and tenacity are the traits you will
find in those who finish and achieve their dreams."


There are times when the situation as it occurs, dictates the course of actions that follow.

"I stand for the National Anthem, always have, always will"

On days like this, I often wonder what Gary Gordon and Randy Shughart would do...


Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:40 pm
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joao01 wrote:
I was having that very thought this morning. The Silver or higher trust seems to be what I'd want, and at the moment I don't have the budget for those. For the moment, best to avoid NFA altogether (for me).

Yeah, there's no getting around NFA items being relatively expensive when you consider all the costs involved. If NFA items aren't a high priority for you right now, or if your budget precludes them, then sit back and watch what happens on the regulatory front. Maybe silencers will drop off the purview of the NFA, and maybe 41F will be revoked. One can dream... :bonghit:


Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:27 pm
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I've just been doing some research on this and here are a few of the pertinent issues that seem to come into play:

The $97 locally offered Bronze trust does not allow for naming of a trustee successor, co-trustees, or beneficiaries.
There are several online offerings starting at $79 that allow you to include all of these right off the bat. Some provide forms and sample docs to show you how to add more co-trustees and/or beneficiaries in the future.

It can be vitally important to decide whether you want to use Schedule A forms or Assignment forms to keep track of your inventory/assets.
If your trust uses language saying that says it includes a Schedule A or other forms, the trust is incomplete without it and will be rejected if submitted without one. Other trusts are written without language indicating usage of a Schedule A, and they are complete and valid without one. You can keep track of assets on the Assignment form and it does not get submitted to ATF with your trust.
Some people are tracking all of their trust assets, NFA and non-NFA, on the Schedule A, and that gets submitted to ATF with every transaction. An assignment form is not required to be submitted to ATF for NFA transactions, so you are not giving the gov't an updated list of your assets every time you submit your trust for a transaction. I may not be describing the process perfectly or with exactly correct verbiage, so please do your own research. But that's the gist of the difference.

Here's a few of the sites I have been looking at:

https://nfalawyers.com/
http://199trust.com/
https://www.guntrustdepot.com/

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Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:31 pm
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I set up my trust today and ended up going with the nfalawyers people I linked to above. I chose them because I had a question about liability issues, and I was able to reach the law office by phone, leave a message, and receive a call back from the lawyer in about 20 minutes. He spent about 10 minutes on the phone with me answering my question before I had ordered the trust from him.
If anyone is interested I can do a review once I actually receive the paperwork.

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Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:53 pm
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Chip wrote:
I've just been doing some research on this and here are a few of the pertinent issues that seem to come into play:

The $97 locally offered Bronze trust does not allow for naming of a trustee successor, co-trustees, or beneficiaries.
There are several online offerings starting at $79 that allow you to include all of these right off the bat. Some provide forms and sample docs to show you how to add more co-trustees and/or beneficiaries in the future.

It can be vitally important to decide whether you want to use Schedule A forms or Assignment forms to keep track of your inventory/assets.
If your trust uses language saying that says it includes a Schedule A or other forms, the trust is incomplete without it and will be rejected if submitted without one. Other trusts are written without language indicating usage of a Schedule A, and they are complete and valid without one. You can keep track of assets on the Assignment form and it does not get submitted to ATF with your trust.
Some people are tracking all of their trust assets, NFA and non-NFA, on the Schedule A, and that gets submitted to ATF with every transaction. An assignment form is not required to be submitted to ATF for NFA transactions, so you are not giving the gov't an updated list of your assets every time you submit your trust for a transaction. I may not be describing the process perfectly or with exactly correct verbiage, so please do your own research. But that's the gist of the difference.

Here's a few of the sites I have been looking at:

https://nfalawyers.com/
http://199trust.com/
https://www.guntrustdepot.com/


If the Bronze trust doesn't allow naming of beneficiaries then it's not a valid trust. You must have a beneficiary to be a valid trust.

Having a schedule A doesn't necessarily mean that the ATF gets all your info when you submit the trust for a transaction. This spring I bought two cans and the only thing on my schedule A was the $200 I assigned to set up the trust.

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Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:14 pm
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RocketScott wrote:

If the Bronze trust doesn't allow naming of beneficiaries then it's not a valid trust. You must have a beneficiary to be a valid trust.

Having a schedule A doesn't necessarily mean that the ATF gets all your info when you submit the trust for a transaction. This spring I bought two cans and the only thing on my schedule A was the $200 I assigned to set up the trust.


I'm definitely not saying I know the details to 100% certainty, especially about the legality / requirement for co-trustees, etc., but I have been looking at a lot of these online offerings lately. The nwgunlawgroup bronze offering does not offer the naming of co-trustees of beneficiaries. I was surprised because it was the only one I found that was so basic and without features, at least the way it appeared online. Here's a quote from their description of the trust online, with an important section in bold:

"Bronze is a clearly written, purpose-built and streamlined trust. To keep cost to a minimum, it is provided without detailed consultation and is available for purchase and download this trust directly from our website. The trust is expressly written with a minimal feature set and without opportunity for customization – instead it looks to your other estate planning documents or to state law if you have none to appoint your successor Trustee and for distribution details.

Besides that, here's a copy/paste from the User Guide at the link below the quote (note there is a Bronze+ version mentioned, but I didn't see how to purchase that on their website):

"Bronze Edition Trusts are not designed to appoint current Co-trustees as there are complex issues that arise under federal and state law involving different legal standards and definitions. Bronze+ allows you to appoint incapacity or death Successor Trustees, as well as Remainder Beneficiaries to receive trust property at death."
http://nwgunlawgroup.com/wp-content/upl ... 2016.1.pdf

So they seem to be offering a product they say is a legally valid trust that doesn't appoint anyone besides the grantor of the trust. And I'm fine with that, if that's what people want.

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Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:53 pm
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The bronze definitely works for NFA (otherwise they wouldn't be selling it as such). I bought it and there is a section that allows you to name your incapacity and death trustee(s). For some reason I thought there was another section you could add additional beneficiaries, but can't find it right now.


Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:20 am
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I wasn't questioning the validity of the trust, I'm completely confident it is, but was just replying to the other statement that it can't be valid w/out certain info. I would have liked to support a local business, especially one that has made efforts to support the WaGuns community. In this case I felt I found another product that offered more benefits / flexibility for the same price. What sealed the deal was the chance to consult with the attorney over the phone before purchasing the trust online. I got about 10 minutes of his time and he answered a question I had about liability for misuse of trust property (my other thread here: http://www.waguns.org/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=70550 ). I got mine through the nfalawyers.com site I linked to below.

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Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:59 am
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