You can link to the actual rule from this page:
http://blog.princelaw.com/2016/01/04/at ... o-atf-41p/

The Prince Law blog has been a great source for information on 41P, so stay tuned to that site for more.

NFA items are about to become harder to find than 22LR.

So other than the fact that the NFA is stupid and should be overturned, this seems (from my reading of the linked article) like it makes getting NFA items easier for people who don't care about submitting photos, fingerprints, etc by eliminating the CLEO signoff requirement. Obviously for those who want to keep as much info out of GOV hands, this is a bad deal as it eliminates the trust/llc "loophole". Am I reading this right?

I'm not defending the process, but having a CPL in WA and buying a pistol put you through most of those checks anyway. It sounds like it makes it cheaper for me to get my suppressor, eliminating paying for a trust.
Of course I could be easy off base [emoji33]

Yes and no.

There are a number of completely free trusts out there that are perfectly functional and legal - with one of those, you're in business with just the cost of some ink, paper and a notary. Easy-peasy, lemon-squeezy.

Under these new rules, you're going to need to submit photos with each purchase (the photos cannot be more than 1 year old per these new rules). You'll also have to submit fingerprints on a specific FBI fingerprint card (per these new rules). What is the cost of those two things? What sort of time/effort will it require? Oh your son/brother/wife/sister is also a trustee? Yeah - they have to do it as well (per the new rules). You also have to send a notification to your local CLEO that you are getting an NFA item - again, more time & effort.

So, ultimately - it may sound cheaper or easier but it's really not (i.e.: time is money). It creates a lot more hoops to jump through if you want an NFA item - which disincentivizes people from exercising their 2A rights (much like 594).

EDIT: If this rule was about voting or exercising religious beliefs, people would be losing their shit.

If you have a trust, yup, yer screwed. However, for someone who doesn't have a trust and isn't planning on going through a trust, this means you don't have to rely on your CLEO to sign off. I like that the CLEO signoff was eliminated. Again, the rest is bollocks.

What I'm getting from this is that they abandoned the plan for trusts to get CLEO sign off and are settling for CLEO notification. Again from what I see, trusts can still buy NFA items, they just have to submit the fingerprint card and pics (much like non trust purchases IIRC) and notify the CLEO.

So if you have a trust, there are extra hoops. If you don't have a trust and don't want a trust you still have to hope for a CLEO signoff.

Sorry guys...that's not what the new rules say and it doesn't really "screw" anyone using a trust. Having a trust for your NFA items still gives you a lot of power/benefits in terms of what happens with your stuff - during your lifetime and after you die. Even if I buy something after these rules become effective - I still wouldn't buy it as an individual.

CLEO sign off is being completely eliminated - for individuals, trusts and corporations. But now everyone - individuals, trusts, corporations - has to get fingerprinted and photographed...and they have to send a notice to their CLEO. This makes things more consistent - but it also complicates the process for people using trusts, which is the point. As I said, they want this to be complicated/time-consuming so less people do it.

EDIT: With that said, you could simply ensure your trust does not grant co-trustees the "power or authority to direct the management and/or policies of the trust" and then the only person who would need fingerprinted/photographed is you...which is the same thing you'd have to do as an individual.

Ultimately, it seems like a wash - yes, CLEO sign off is gone but the convenience of trusts has been greatly reduced and yes, local LE will now know each time you buy an NFA item (I recognize that SPD already knows I'm a gun owner because of my CPL, but I still don't really think it's any of their business when I buy a suppressor).

You know what's funny? One of the reasons I never got around to doing an NFA item is I've been too lazy to set up a trust. The idea of running to OPD, paying the fee for fingerprinting, attaching a photo and mailing it off for what in my case would probably be a once or twice in a lifetime thing seems appealing.

Seriously? Setting up a trust is substantially easier and takes less time. Being fingerprinted for my CPL at SPD took over an hour. Getting my trust notarized took 5 minutes.

I edited my original post to reflect my most-current thoughts on the situation...posts on other forums describe it as "a reach around while being fucked from behind." I think that's a little harsh because the CLEO sign off was a big problem but these rule changes aren't really helping us - they further stigmatize legal gun owners and NFA items in general. They make people believe that trusts were/are being used to evade background checks and that crimes/violence were/are being committed with NFA items hence the "need" for these new rules. Of course, all of those things are untrue and easily proved via widely available data (but this is a long-term culture war and they put those "facts" in the history books with the administrations current PR blitz). Also, the additional paperwork will in the ATF's own words (page 69):



Of course, the ATF is being very generous with themselves with the current processing time (I am currently at 140 days for two NFA items)...so we should all do the same for the anticipated increase (10 months?).

This also sets a poor precedent - pushing through new rules when a vast majority of comments by citizens and industry groups opposed said rules? What will the CLEOs do with all of the forms they receive? Will those be securely stored? Finally, this pushes us backward in our attempts to remove suppressors from the NFA (or open the registry to new F/A guns, or eliminate the NFA all together and simply have everything function under the GCA/Brady Bill...hell, why are we still even screwing around with paper finger prints or photos? My phone has a fingerprint scanner and a camera!).

I'm spoiled in Olympia. I got fingerprinted in 5 minutes for my CPL. They never have any lines any of the times I've gone to the station for something. So for me prints/trip to a bank/notary about the same thing. Not having to pay for a trust or dig around for a good free boilerplate is also nice. This is largely moot for me. I understand I'm an outlier here though.

Ditto. Plus I need to get around to selling a couple pieces... but after that!

Can you rely on it always taking 5 minutes?

Beyond that - trusts make things pretty easy to manage and also clarify some issues about where things go and how to handle them when you die. Finally, I resent 41P as a waste of time and bad public policy. The time, energy and money would have been much better invested in something else.

In Oly? Yeah pretty much. Also again, once or twice in a lifetime thing. To me any NFA item is a pain in the ass, so I'm largely indifferent to which pain in the ass I choose because I don't do it enough to matter.

As for the rest, yeah I agree. It's fucking stupid.

The people who have co-trustees and other responsible parties located in galaxies far, far away will not like this ruling.

Fingerprints and passport photos cost money. Not a lot of money, but some. $15 or so. Plus the time to go get them done. Plus writing and mailing a letter to the CLEO.

All because a couple people somewhere supposedly hid a prohibited person on their trust. Oh well. Life goes on.

Man, I have aweful luck when it comes to NFA items! I finally Form 1 an SBR, 2 months in and the ATF denies Form 1 SBR's in WA. Just ordered my AEM5 suppressor
yesterday... Oh well, at least it's just a few extra hoops to jump through. It's bullshit, but at least it doesn't stop me from acquiring.