my problem with Rainiers arms build SBR's is that they are doing it under exemption #3.b, and that is only allowed if they doing one of the following.

(i) To be used or purchased by the armed forces of the United States;
(ii) To be used or purchased by federal, state, county, or municipal law enforcement agencies; or
(iii) For exportation in compliance with all applicable federal laws and regulations.


so unless they are selling to Soldiers/Sailors, LEO's, or exportation, its not legal under 9.41.190 .

I share that same concern... The good thing is that it is the FFL that gets in deep shit for violating that law, not the gun owner.

I submitted my efile form 1 on June 16 and I think I was disapproved today. I didn't receive an email or anything notifying me that I was disapproved but the eform account page shows in the right column under My Forms "DISAPPROVED" but the line item doesn't show anything. If I look at my submitted form it shows nothing.

Is this the way the rejections are showing up now?

OK, I fingered it out on how to view the PDF form, that site is sooo intuitive, NOT! I was disapproved on July 11th and Mr. Cutter was the one who disapproved mine. Same reason as mentioned in earlier posts, RCW does't allow manufacture of a SBR.

Yup . . . the email notifications are not consistent. You may get one or you may not.

Just an FYI. An 07 does not ask for permission to make an SBR or a Suppressor.

They fill out one of these:

https://www.atf.gov/file/61531/download

Notice the big line at the top. That is a NOTICE, not a permission slip. An 07 can send out both the F2 and F4 the same day.

(Before you ask, MGs are different, see the instructions.)

Yep...aware of that. Doesn't change the fact that those FFLs are violating state law by selling to non-LEO/MIL.

I would REALLY like to know if and when any civilian (read: non-LEO/non-military/non-export customer) successfully acquires a Rainier Arms-built SBR on an approved Form 4. Or from Aero Precision, for that matter, as I see they are offering them for sale on their website as well. Then I think a Trust or individual who was denied on a Form 1 would have standing to file suit based upon an unequal application of the RCWs with respect to making/manufacturing.

Yes, however people keep talking about the ATF approving things. There is nothing on the F2 to "get approved".

However once it is already made, the Form 4 a normal transfer. The ATF would not have standing to step in here. Now if the AG wants to, that is another story.

I believe they would have standing...they received the Form 2 and have the serial number/description and then when the Form 4 rolls in, they could deny it based on WA law prohibiting a manufactured SBR going to a non-LEO/MIL. It's a stretch but so is the current bullshit going on with Form 1s.

I think root is right here. It's a state law that the FFLs are (supposedly) in violation of, so at best ATF could instruct the FFL to get in compliance with state law, but the jurisdiction to prosecute lies with the State AG's office.

But the AG clearly doesn't have an interest in resolving this matter, at least not any time soon. We're talking about what, 1 passage in the RCW that isn't entirely clear enough for everyone to understand? Am I to believe that it takes this long to issue an official opinion on the proper interpretation of the law in question? I call bullshit on that. The AG is stalling, and the tin foil conspiracy theorist in me says its for political reasons. But I think the reason the FFL manufacturing hasn't been called into question yet (except by me and a handful of others) is for the reason Benja said above:

And perhaps the AG is, too.

Sent an email to Rainier Arms and recieved a reply this AM:

"Hi Marco,
You will need to bring in all the parts to assemble a complete SBR, not just the lower. Bring in all your parts for assembly, and we will process a Form 2 for SBR manufacturing approval. Cost is $125, includes engraving and assembly. Once the Form 2 is approved, we will contact you to come back with your trust and complete the Form 4.
Thank you. "

Question: If the Form 2 is approved, how long does the Form 4 take for completion or approval? Does this suggest a wait for as long as a suppressor takes on a Form 4?

Comments please becuase I honestly do not understand this whole process. Thanks

There is no Approval period, it's a notification.
http://www.ammoland.com/2009/12/nationa ... z3hVqmalAR


So, I am not sure why Rainier is saying that you have to come back with your trust. You should be able to do it all in one shot. Technically, they don't even need to submit a form 2 until AFTER they get back your form 4 and put your gun together.

Roger that.
Questions; Is it possible that they got the process backwards? As in Form 4 should be completed first? But, they are putting a rifle together then techincally selling it to me as a NFA firearm thus needing a Form 4, and then the $200.00 tax?

I was curious to if this is the process, Rainier Arms, will it take the same length of time as it does to approve a supressor?

No, the Form 2 comes first. You need to make the SBR (Form 2) before you can transfer it (Form 4).

And yes, the Form 4 flow will be a number of months, similar to a suppressor transfer.

Because even 07s have no idea how the NFA really works. I have been over this with several places and lots of them go "NO UR WRONG". Others have said TIL. I have yet to hear back from Rainier on this however.

tl;dr: Complicated laws are complicated and everyone thinks they need permission slips for everything. Just as they want.