and before you say 'both' or '.300 BO'...

I've had many similar threads on the topic, and I keep bouncing around ideas, pluses and minuses...

In a dynamic situation I'll never be in, I'm thinking blending into the woodwork and being able to get shots downrange without making a lot of noise or being very visible might be an advantage.. While a heavy hitting caliber might be advantageous in some situations, having something that is no louder than a pellet gun seems like it may outweigh the limitations of only being a pistol caliber. 147gr +P HST is no slouch, but pales in comparison to any intermediate or rifle caliber. I want something small, fairly lightweight, but still able to be comfortable and accurate when presented. It has to have the ability to have some sort of side folding brace, for my carpal tunnel... :D

My current 'truck gun' that goes with me everywhere is a Mini Draco with side folding KAK brace.. OAL is ~19".... I chose it for its range and penetration ICSH.. However, I'm concerned about hearing loss, and while penetration is great on both soft and hard targets (154gr SP are amazeballs on soft tissue), I'm thinking smaller and lighter... and suppression with an AK (non-concentric threads) and short bbl mean suppressing it is out of the question.

I have an PTR32, which is a pistol based on the HK G91 platform, with an OAL of ~24", but is suppressor ready, also in x39, and also with a folding KAK brace...but with the length and weight, it might as well be a rifle (99% sure I'm gonna sell it).

That leaves a couple of options...

9mm AR pistol.. Can't fire with folding stock (LAW folding stock adapter).. OAL with a 5" bbl could easily be ~14", and would be suppressor ready.. Cost around a grand... downsides, proprietary EVERYTHING.

7.62x39 AR pistol.. Can't fire with folding stock (as above) .. OAL would be closer to 17" with 7.5" BBL, and suppressing would be questionable... due to length of bbl... down side is proprietary mags and 'stuff'.. but puts a smack down.. Honestly, I'd probably stay with my draco instead of going this route, if I'm staying with this caliber.

MP5 variant.. OAL would be around 14" with sidefolding brace, suppressor ready... downside..cost... close to 2k$ WITHOUT the suppressor...

Hybrid 'carbine adapter' (Thanks to Steve for reminding me those even existed) for M&P...I could still sit around the 14" mark...I would want a dedicated gun to leave in there, not have to assemble it. I already have a ton of M&P mags, multiple M&P pistols.. and any modifications such as trigger mods are the same as the M&P.Cost would be around a grand. Downside, some modifications would have to be made to allow it to use a suppressor. Something like the Micro Roni, Sig ACP, Hera Triarii, etc.

Thoughts?

Heavy hitting or silent but deadly?

I think it depends what “downrange” means in terms of range, and I think your question boils down to subsonic versus supersonic ammo.

With subsonic ammo, I feel like the bullet just drops way too fast to really be accurate beyond, say, 150 yards or so. If you want to be able to hit targets at a few hundred yards, then I think you need to go supersonic.

To me, if you want quiet and for closer range, something like 147-grain 9mm might be your answer. If you want to go longer, you’ll need to sacrifice quietness and go full power like the 7.62x39.

I would venture to say sub-100 yards.

I was 100% dead set on switching everything over to 9mm, then dipshit in LVNV happened, and realized that a couple hundred yards might actually be needed.... But, I'm thinking 99.9% would be carrying it in a briefcase or backpack, something unassuming....

right now my AK is in a padded tool box, and that's been stellar at the whole low key thing.... Best money I've ever spent on a case, IMO... But I'd like something smaller, if possible, and lighter, again, more akin to bag carry..



https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-22-i ... /205440492

Well, if you want small, quiet and long(ish)-range, then I think you need to get a bolt-action with a folding stock. 16” or SBR, whatever.

If a target is so far out that you cannot hit it with suppressed 9mm, then you should be able to evade without engaging.

Why not just suppress the AK? Supersonic suppressed shooting isn't quiet, but it's a lot quieter than unsuppressed. Doubt you'll get hearing damage from 1 time needing to shoot it without ear pro.

Very true.

I've been looking at research on 9mm, and it appears 200m out of an MP5/AR subgun isn't out of the ordinary.. and @ 200m, a suppressed 9mm would be pretty damn quiet.

It's an option, but I'm not sure if there's enough of the barrel left to rethread. The AK also doesn't suppress very well, due to venting..

Even a 10.5 ar15 fits in the trunk nice though I like my 7.5

all are going to mess your hearing up if you go sustained with no protection.

carry a set in your car, youre grabbing the gun grab the ear pro next

youre not fighting in the dessert you should be able find cover

I've always wondered about using ear pro in a defense situation. I feel like using ear pro could be argued by the prosecutor as premeditation

I’m visualizing TW all covered in cake.

At least you’d be able to hear him argue it.

That's a lot of fucking cake..

and...

Ops started it.

expansion @ 440 yds.. that's impressive..

BDC at that range is probably measured in feet, though,...