Gun store Shooting Locations It is currently Thu Apr 18, 2024 11:25 am



Rules WGO Chat Room Gear Rent Me Shield NRA SAF CCKRBA
Calendar




Reply to topic  [ 60 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 How to grip a pistol 
Author Message
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Round Rock, TX
Joined: Thu Mar 5, 2015
Posts: 3899
Real Name: Dave
Duke EB wrote:
I have seen the shannon smith vid before, it's very good


Yes it's a good one. I love the Jerry Miculek videos as well, his victory celebrations are a lot of fun to watch :bigsmile: Great content too.
I found another great source of instructional videos on YouTube to also be the US Army Marksmanship Unit. They had a Corporal Travis Tomasie on several videos a while back that were great. Really helped me with learning shot calling and follow through as I had a bad habit of blinking at the shot break in live fire. Kind of a hold over from an old flinch habit I had that is now mostly resolved.

_________________
There are dead horses yet to be slain....
- NWGunner


Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:33 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: maple valley
Joined: Mon May 6, 2013
Posts: 2575
Real Name: Earl
GeekWithGuns wrote:
Duke EB wrote:
I have seen the shannon smith vid before, it's very good


Yes it's a good one. I love the Jerry Miculek videos as well, his victory celebrations are a lot of fun to watch :bigsmile: Great content too.
I found another great source of instructional videos on YouTube to also be the US Army Marksmanship Unit. They had a Corporal Travis Tomasie on several videos a while back that were great. Really helped me with learning shot calling and follow through as I had a bad habit of blinking at the shot break in live fire. Kind of a hold over from an old flinch habit I had that is now mostly resolved.

Travis Tomasie is a champion shooter, and is sponsored by Remington. Look up videos of him changing mags, it's incredibly fast. Travis is also a local product, his father now lives up by Blaine. He's a great guy as well(Travis' father), and a very good shooter.
Wajim met Travis at the last iron sight nationals for uspsa!


Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:49 am
Profile
Online
User avatar

Location: Bothell
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015
Posts: 4872
At least you have taken the first step and realized that it is you and not the gun... its amazing how many people will blame the gun. 250 rounds to master the 45??? Noooo.... you've got a long ways to go grasshopper.... plan on a couple of cases, and keeping up practicing - its amazing how quickly you can lose the skill.

When i first started with the 1911, I went thru the same process. Until you can get your groupings tight, don't fuck with the sights --- you'll find that you are just adjusting the sights to account for your flinching and jerking --- you're just chasing your tail at that point. Start in closer at 7 yds til you're grouping well, then move out to 10 yds and repeat, then 15 and so on.... I found that the move from 10 yds to 15 to be very difficult, and stretching out to 25 yds just embarrassing --- I blame it on the fact that I have trouble seeing the target clearly beyond 15 yds.

Attachment:
20171122_081204 (Medium).jpg

Once you get to this point, you can begin thinking about adjust your sights if needed....

Attachment:
20171122_081324 (Medium).jpg

Once you're able to do 'cold' shots like this, you know you and the gun are golden!!! The best I've been able to do is 4 shots thru the center before I start to fling them.... its all in the head at that point.



Duke EB wrote:
MadPick wrote:
Isildur wrote:
Sig specifically says (somewhere in their literature) that all Sigs are set up from the factory with sight image #3, as shown in this illustration:

Image


:whatthe: :facepalm2:

I just don't get it . . . why would anyone EVER want sight image #1 or #3?

:plusone:


I was always told that ::
#1 TARGET sight picture is set up for bullseye shooting at certain distances
#2 PRECISION sight picture for precise shooting
#3 COMBAT sight picture -- I assume its for center of mass shooting (?)

I set up all my adjustable sights to #2 because.... it just seems right.
Took me forever to realize that my Baby Eagle has #1 sight picture --- always thought that I was flinching somehow to make it shoot 2" high - was relieved to finally figure out the real cause. Took me even longer to figure out that my Barettas (84 &92) have #3 sight picture - again, I assumed that I was flicking the guns down causing them to shoot 2" low --- I really hate this sight picture on my 92 -- it really makes it hard to group anything because the front sight is covering where you want to shoot.

The important point is to KNOW how your sights are set up - and sight accordingly.

And yes, learn to shoot with BOTH eyes open --- it makes such a difference. Took me awhile to learn it, and sadly, I've forgotten how to do it now... it takes a lot of effort to force myself to keep both eyes open.

Dry fire - dry fire - dry fire..... If you can't break the trigger without the sights moving AT ALL, you're just wasting lead - especially at longer ranges.

And yes, if the gun is torquing to the side after the shot, you need to adjust your grip --- more clamping from the weakside, less from the trigger hand. The gun should only move completely vertical after ignition, and settle back on target after recoil.

Edit to add.... Another thing to try that worked well for me (for a while once I mastered it, but have now lost it) is to do a vertical sweep of the target, and click the trigger as you pass thru you're intended POI... I found that to be very effective with the 1911..... and a 2.5# trigger --- slow follow up shots, but nice vertical 'line' groups.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
Plan B is actually repeating Plan A.... it just involves much more alcohol.

Of the ten voices I hear in my head, only three keep telling me NOT to shoot....
Do I go with the majority or common sense?


Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:59 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Exit 63, I-5
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2016
Posts: 252
Real Name: Steve
Isildur wrote:
Sig specifically says (somewhere in their literature) that all Sigs are set up from the factory with sight image #3, as shown in this illustration:

Image


Well, damn, my Ruger manual shows #1 and I've been shooting #2... Time to go back to the range.

_________________
From a friend:
Benjamin Franklin once said that beer is proof that God loves us.
I'm of the opinion that Redheads are proof that, contrary to popular belief, Satan also loves us.


Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:02 am
Profile WWW
Online
User avatar

Location: Bothell
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015
Posts: 4872
Best thing to do is draw a 1" circle with a sharpie shoot 5 shots @ 7 yds with sight picture #1 - that will tell you how the sights are setup - in the hole >>> #2, 2-3" hi>> #1, 2-3" low >> #3 ---- assuming you can form a decent group.

I figured out that my BEagle has a #1 sight picture if you use the outline of the sights.... but if you line up the dots, its closer to #2 --- don't know why the sights dots are that way... but knowing that is half the battle. I thought that maybe the sights were set for heavier projectiles - 124 or 147 vs 115 --- but after testing many varieties, I concluded it wasn't. Jury is still out as to whether its been sighted for 50 yds..... I can't see that far and sure as hell can't hold that steady to verify.

Sight picture #3 just plain sucks... its hard to pick a point 2-3" ABOVE your intended POI --- much easier to pick a point 2-3" below POI for #1.

_________________
Plan B is actually repeating Plan A.... it just involves much more alcohol.

Of the ten voices I hear in my head, only three keep telling me NOT to shoot....
Do I go with the majority or common sense?


Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:31 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: central wa
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011
Posts: 3554
snozzberries wrote:
MadPick wrote:
Isildur wrote:
Sig specifically says (somewhere in their literature) that all Sigs are set up from the factory with sight image #3, as shown in this illustration:

Image


:whatthe: :facepalm2:

I just don't get it . . . why would anyone EVER want sight image #1 or #3?

I've also noticed that when it recoils, it's recoiling up and to the left, almost rolling over, like the ejecting shell is pushing the pistol. Which it's obviously not. This is what said I have grip issues.

Correct diagnoses, it's your grip,
Likely your strong hand thumb is underneath your support hand thumb. Review vogel vid again re support hand placement. If your support thumb is not ~ parallel to floor, and you feel tension in top of support forearm about 2-3 inches behind wrist, you're likely not correcting that up/left muzzle flip.


Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:17 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Shelton, WA
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011
Posts: 1136
Real Name: Norm
zombie66 wrote:
I would like to add another trick to Steves dry-fire advice, put a dime on the very end of the barrel and dry-fire without the dime moving.

I was told this years ago when trying learn on a Double Action revolver.



I was taught the same way with a revolver, both in double and in single action... it was a trick to be able to keep the dime on the barrel when cocking the hammer back, and no one told me it was ok to lose the dime during this phase until well after I had gotten good at it!

Sight picture #3 seems to be more for a defensive style situation where you just want to cover the target you want to hit without having to "look" for the spot you want if that makes sense... just cover and shoot rather than aim and shoot....


Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:46 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Lynnwood and at large
Joined: Wed May 1, 2013
Posts: 21264
Real Name: Vick Lagina
Dime, Shmime. How about an empty case?

_________________
“Finding ‘common ground’ with the thinking of evil men is a fool’s errand” ~ Herschel Smith

"The said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." ~ Samuel Adams

“A return to First Principles in a Republic is sometimes caused by simple virtues of a single man. His good example has such an influence that the good men strive to imitate him, and the wicked are ashamed to lead a life so contrary to his example. Before all else, be armed!” ~ Niccolo Machiavelli

Láodòng zhèng zhūwèi zìyóu

FJB


Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:06 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Maple Valley, WA
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011
Posts: 9266
Real Name: Young
Grip....

The foundation of pistol shooting.

Two handed technique is equated to a solid “handshake”

I have taught this “physics technique” ever since I have taught pistol shooting. I say physics because it demonstrates pressure and balance both as the shooter and as the firearm.

You ask what is the second hand doing. Give someone a good two handed Honest American handshake. That is what you are doing. The primary hand grips the firearm and the support hand wraps around surrounding and supporting the primary hand.

Now the trick is finding someone that knows what a good Honest American handshake really is...

I use this technique to illustrate why a cup and saucer hold like for revolvers do not work well for semi and how as the person getting that proper handshake feels supported all around.

It’s a simple technique but gets the idea across how and why to properly “grip” a semi pistol.

Plus for those tacticool pistol holders that use the indexing of the trigger guard - it also shows how that one finger on the trigger guard is a joke. It may look cool but that one finger has you chasing your grouping all over the place.

Grip - is the foundation.

And please don’t try to say breath control when it comes to pistol shooting. It’s not. It’s for rifles...

My focus for teaching pistols
1) Grip
2) Sight picture
3) Trigger
4) Stance

Sorry I’ll stop there


Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:52 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Everson, WA
Joined: Sun Jan 6, 2013
Posts: 28178
Real Name: Ace Winky
oldkim wrote:
Grip....

The foundation of pistol shooting.

Two handed technique is equated to a solid “handshake”

I have taught this “physics technique” ever since I have taught pistol shooting. I say physics because it demonstrates pressure and balance both as the shooter and as the firearm.

You ask what is the second hand doing. Give someone a good two handed Honest American handshake. That is what you are doing. The primary hand grips the firearm and the support hand wraps around surrounding and supporting the primary hand.

Now the trick is finding someone that knows what a good Honest American handshake really is...

I use this technique to illustrate why a cup and saucer hold like for revolvers do not work well for semi and how as the person getting that proper handshake feels supported all around.

It’s a simple technique but gets the idea across how and why to properly “grip” a semi pistol.

Plus for those tacticool pistol holders that use the indexing of the trigger guard - it also shows how that one finger on the trigger guard is a joke. It may look cool but that one finger has you chasing your grouping all over the place.

Grip - is the foundation.

And please don’t try to say breath control when it comes to pistol shooting. It’s not. It’s for rifles...

My focus for teaching pistols
1) Grip
2) Sight picture
3) Trigger
4) Stance

Sorry I’ll stop there


I can't find the like button fast enough.

_________________
Why does the Penguin in Batman sound like a duck?

Because the eagle sounds like a hawk.


Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:14 pm
Profile
User avatar

Location: Snohomish
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014
Posts: 82
Real Name: Shawn
Another video on grip (from local shooters): http://www.powerfactorshow.com/2011/01/ ... draw-grip/

When my accuracy is lacking I remind myself of 3 things. 1. Grip tighter with the support hand. Moving the muscles in the strong hand during trigger press can disturb the sight picture and firmer support hand grip negates that movement. 2. Front sight focus. It's easy to fall prey to target focus and for shooting a pistol with accuracy front sight focus is important. 3. Slow the trigger press. Change it just enough that breaking the shot is a surprise. No anticipation or flinch that way.

Also, double plug your ears. Noise can induce a flinch too.

Keep up the dry fire.


Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:47 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Seattle
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013
Posts: 530
Real Name: Jesse
No one here has asked you this yet so I"ll ask; what distance were you shooting those targets at? Because those groups are bad for 5 yards, ok for 25 yards, and impressive for 50 yards if shooting offhand.

_________________
NRA Life Member
USPSA Production Class C & Limited Class D
IDPA SSP, CDP & SSR Marksman


Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:54 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: The banana belt of MT
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015
Posts: 8584
Real Name: Brian
Steve, in the 1800-1900's, Europe always set their posts to COVER the target. US shooters always used the lolly pop method.
Thus, the reason that Numrich made it's name selling 4 different front sights for the German P-38 post WW2. Americans were using the Lolly pop method of shooting and thought the guns shot like crap, (low)

_________________
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."- Hunter S. Thompson


Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:31 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: King County
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2014
Posts: 4012
JesseM wrote:
No one here has asked you this yet so I"ll ask; what distance were you shooting those targets at? Because those groups are bad for 5 yards, ok for 25 yards, and impressive for 50 yards if shooting offhand.

Pretty sure it was 50 feet.


Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:46 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Maple Valley, WA
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011
Posts: 9266
Real Name: Young
When diagnosing any shooter... it's a tough job since there are so many variables to consider.

For you I would try a few things.

1) Distance
Don't shoot too far. Not when you are looking to improve your grouping.
I say this for a few reasons. The ability for someone to improve and "refine" their marksmanship - one has to see what they are doing. When learning one has to have direct input (feedback) after shooting a string or even one shot. Just depends on the type of shooter you are.

So my message to you... move that target in closer to work on marksmanship. Then push it out once you have a consistent grouping at closer ranges.

2) Different target
I hate black circular center targets. You mask that area you are trying to shoot (see above). If you can't see exactly what and where you hit... your mind will go into auto focus. Meaning you may know you hit the center area but since you don't know exactly your mind will flex and change to be able to see it the next time. The fallacy is that's inconsistency in action.

Get rid of the dark targets!

For pure marksmanship. Move target closer and use a single 1" dot on a simple 8 x 11 piece of white paper as your "target" The simple Shoot N C 1" circles are best as they react to hits and you can see every hit clearly.

3) Have someone that is more experienced than you watch you. It would be nice if they were... maybe an instructor but not everyone wants to pay...

Having a 1:1 coach to watch your grip, stance and how you are shooting can be hugely beneficial in a short period. They can help you see what you may not be able to see or know what you are evening doing. In the long run having an instructor can help you get on the right path and hopefully before you develop the "bad habits" that haunt so many shooters.


So, hope that helps. It's free so take it for what's it's worth.... Free. :thumbsup2:


Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:15 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 60 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 25 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum



Rules WGO Chat Room Gear Rent Me NRA SAF CCKRBA
Calendar


Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software for PTF.
[ Time : 0.565s | 19 Queries | GZIP : Off ]