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It is currently Fri Apr 19, 2024 12:41 pm
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CMP approved to sell surplus 1911s in latest spending bill
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OhShoot!
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Location: Bellingham Canada Joined: Thu Jan 3, 2013 Posts: 4999
Real Name: Josheewa
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ANZAC wrote: usrifle wrote: ANZAC wrote: I am starting to think my USGI M1911A1 was the bargain of the century. I can't imagine how the CMP will price them.... How did you acquire yours if i may ask? GunBroker.com, out of state, private sale. It was $1100. (corrected price, memory was hazy!) It was made in 1943, reparkerized in the 50's through the armory - a lot of them went through that and it has the armory mark on it. Most important thing is slide matches frame matches barrel according to the books (for a Remington Rand build). It also has the correct mags. I got the impression that a lot of guns that went through the armory were mixed up (i.e. they'd refinish slides, frames, etc separately and put them all together regardless of manufacturer). So this gun is unusually good for an armory gun. At the time WWII USGI collector guns were about $3k and up. (original condition, not parkerized) It does have a nice amount of holster patina so it did get some daily use after it was reparkerized. I had to replace the barrel link, and I used original wax wrapped surplus USGI parts. The slide to frame fit is not all that bad. I got a nice 1942 holster for it, but sadly I think despite good treatment that it has shrunk enough that it probably isn't usable in any practical way (very tight fit). But it is a shooter and not a display gun, and I've never been shy about shooting it. It is a gun that I am always happy to let my friends shoot. My only struggle has been wanting to change to stag grips to match Longmire's 1911. In the books Longmire served in Vietnam, and carries his Army 1911, so it is certainly possibly he carried a WWII era 1911. They even re-used the WWII holsters and dyed them black. But in the end, I'm keeping it just as I received it. Be careful with high pressure loads in your sweet war fighting 1911. Colt didn't start hardening the slides until the mid 1960's. Earlier model slides are prone to breakage with heavy use and high pressure loads.
_________________ It must be frustrating always being the smartest person in the room.-Jagerbomber35
Divided we fall.
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Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:25 pm |
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SporkBoy
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Location: Deckerville Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 Posts: 2944
Real Name: Rob
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Duke EB wrote: Mecha wrote: If I am not mistaken you need an officer from the club to sign the CMP form. You just need membership in a cmp affiliated organization. Proof of marksmanship can require a signature, but your CPL will suffice. There are also a few other routes to the marksmanship requirement. Proof of marksmanship is strange considering the whole point of the program is to foster marksmanship - seems catch 22ish.
_________________ “The Democrats are playing you for a political chump and if you vote for them, not only are you a chump, you are a traitor to your race.”-Malcolm X
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Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:25 pm |
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Duke EB
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Location: maple valley Joined: Mon May 6, 2013 Posts: 2575
Real Name: Earl
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SporkBoy wrote: Duke EB wrote: Mecha wrote: If I am not mistaken you need an officer from the club to sign the CMP form. You just need membership in a cmp affiliated organization. Proof of marksmanship can require a signature, but your CPL will suffice. There are also a few other routes to the marksmanship requirement. Proof of marksmanship is strange considering the whole point of the program is to foster marksmanship - seems catch 22ish. The site ( http://thecmp.org) is down right now, but it's actually proof of marksmanship activity or participation. I left an important word off the statement
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Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:01 pm |
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ANZAC
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Location: 12 Acres in Eastern WA Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 Posts: 7251
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OhShoot! wrote: Be careful with high pressure loads in your sweet war fighting 1911. Colt didn't start hardening the slides until the mid 1960's. Earlier model slides are prone to breakage with heavy use and high pressure loads. Yeah I just use regular loads.
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Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:18 pm |
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Alpine
Site Supporter
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 Posts: 7649
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Well it looks like the CMP is set to price gouge these things by possibly 40-100% above their actual value... https://www.thegunwriter.com/23661/cmp- ... plus-1911/Quote: Pricing, Cooper said, is expected to be between $800-$1,000 for shooters.
“It’s hard to say exactly, but a good guess will be around $1,000 minimum,” he said. “One reason for this is that the 1911 is a very valuable pistol. Even though they may be shot out or busted up, we don’t want them falling into the hands of people who will just leave them in a glove box. We want a perceived value — more of an heirloom. We don’t want them considered a standard sidearm. All we need is to have someone commit a liquor store robbery with one and then we’ll be held accountable.
“Their values might be a little bit less, but we want some sort of threshold to prevent anyone from coming in off the street and plunking down $400. I would guess they’d sell for $800 to $1,000 but they’ll go by grade like our M-1s — service grade to collector grade. The rarer ones — ones with all matching numbers or ones carried by celebrities or heroes with provenance, will go to our auction house.” That rat bastard is openly admitting he is going to charge more than their worth to intentionally discriminate against lower income gun owners... Here is the contact info for this clown: (419) 635-2141
_________________If you vote for Biden you are voting to be murdered when he sends Beto to come take your "semi automatic assault weapon" (any semi auto). If you have family or friends voting for Biden show them this and ask if they are willing to vote for your murder or maybe even their own if they are gun owners or live with any. https://nypost.com/2020/03/03/joe-biden ... n-control/Quote: “I want to make something clear, I’m going to guarantee you this is not the last you’ve seen of him (Beto),” Biden said Monday evening during a campaign rally in Dallas. “You’re (Beto) going to take care of the gun problem with me. You’re (Beto) going to be the one who leads this effort.” https://www.newsweek.com/beto-orourke-g ... ns-1465738Quote: [Beto O'Rourke Suggests Police Would 'Visit' Homes To Implement Proposed Assault Weapons Ban] "In that case, I think that there would be a visit by law enforcement to recover that firearm... ..."If someone does not turn in an AR-15 or an AK-47, one of these weapons of war...then that weapon will be taken from them"
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Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:33 pm |
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deadshot2
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Location: Marysville, WA Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 Posts: 11581
Real Name: Mike
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usrifle wrote: It would be kind of cool to have one..... if you want a clapped out old 1911A1 with providence. There's a project for dreadi. I might just buy one. With luck (lots of it) I might get the same POS that Uncle Sam issued me back in 1965, Sucker was so shot out it literally rattled when I cleaned it and gave it a good shake. Back then it was a choice of a 1911 or nothing.
_________________ "I've learned from the Dog that an afternoon nap is a good thing"
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Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:43 pm |
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mislabeled
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Location: N-Sno Joined: Thu Oct 3, 2013 Posts: 4015
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Totally ignorant question here: Who in the military is still using 1911s? Or have most of these been buried in an Indiana Jones-style warehouse for the past 3 (5?) decades?
_________________ "Hmmm. I've been looking for a way to serve the community that incorporates my violence." -- Leela
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Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:07 pm |
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 52038
Real Name: Steve
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The CMP sent this email today: CMP wrote: To all CMP constituents: The CMP Board of Directors has discussed at length how the sales of 1911s would be handled, if the CMP were to ever receive them from the United States Army. Some preliminary decisions: Decisions concerning the grade and pricing of the 1911s will not be made until inspection has occurred of a substantial quantity which will take an estimated 150 days post receipt. All laws pertaining to the sale of 1911s by CMP will be strictly obeyed. Potential purchasers will have to provide to CMP a new set of documents exhibiting: 1) proof of U.S. Citizenship, 2) proof of membership in a CMP affiliated club, 3) proof of participation in a marksmanship activity, 4) a new form 2A with notary, 5) successful completion of a NICS background check, 6) a signed copy of the 01 Federal Firearms License in which the 1911 will be transferred to. The CMP customer will be required to complete a form 4473 in person and successfully complete another NICS check by the recipient FFL holder before the pistol can be transferred. Qualified CMP customer will only be allowed to purchase one 1911 per calendar year. No 1911s available in the CMP stores, or on line, only mail order sales. CMP will set the date in which it will accept orders for the 1911s. The date will be posted to the world. Orders will only be accepted via mail order delivery. Orders will only be accepted post marked on the date or after, no early orders. Once CMP receives 10,000 orders, customer names will be loaded into the Random Number Generator. The Random Number Generator will provide a list of names in sequence order through a random picking process to CMP. Customers will be contacted in the sequence provided by the Random Number Generator. When the customer is contacted a list of 1911 grades and pricing options that are available will be offered for selection of one. As CMP proceeds down the sequenced list less grade and pricing options will be available. Again, this done completely random. Mark Johnson Chief Operating Officer Civilian Marksmanship Program www.thecmp.orgThe 4473 background check thing confuses me . . . does that mean that you need to have a NICS check run on a non-existent gun and submit proof that you passed, and THEN you go into a lottery to buy one, and once you buy one then you need to pass another NICS check when the gun actually arrives? Seems weird.
_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:11 pm |
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usrifle
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Location: RENTON Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 Posts: 20771
Real Name: John
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Yeah, i'm gonna pay 1000 bucks for a clapped out 1911 because it says' "US PROPERTY" on it? Hmmmm....No, i don't think so. You will not be getting anything collectible or pristine for that money, anything like that will go to Auction. You would be far better off buying a new Springfield...for less Money. Some guys will want one no matter what. I get that, but if you expect a shooter rather than a Conversation piece, expect to spend money and lose the Collectibility. Almost anything really desirable with US markings is already out there, there may be some interesting pieces that come from that release but the Auction prices will be stupid.
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Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:50 pm |
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Sinus211
Site Moderator
Location: Marysville Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 Posts: 13503
Real Name: Mike
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MadPick wrote: The CMP sent this email today: CMP wrote: To all CMP constituents: The CMP Board of Directors has discussed at length how the sales of 1911s would be handled, if the CMP were to ever receive them from the United States Army. Some preliminary decisions: Decisions concerning the grade and pricing of the 1911s will not be made until inspection has occurred of a substantial quantity which will take an estimated 150 days post receipt. All laws pertaining to the sale of 1911s by CMP will be strictly obeyed. Potential purchasers will have to provide to CMP a new set of documents exhibiting: 1) proof of U.S. Citizenship, 2) proof of membership in a CMP affiliated club, 3) proof of participation in a marksmanship activity, 4) a new form 2A with notary, 5) successful completion of a NICS background check, 6) a signed copy of the 01 Federal Firearms License in which the 1911 will be transferred to. The CMP customer will be required to complete a form 4473 in person and successfully complete another NICS check by the recipient FFL holder before the pistol can be transferred. Qualified CMP customer will only be allowed to purchase one 1911 per calendar year. No 1911s available in the CMP stores, or on line, only mail order sales. CMP will set the date in which it will accept orders for the 1911s. The date will be posted to the world. Orders will only be accepted via mail order delivery. Orders will only be accepted post marked on the date or after, no early orders. Once CMP receives 10,000 orders, customer names will be loaded into the Random Number Generator. The Random Number Generator will provide a list of names in sequence order through a random picking process to CMP. Customers will be contacted in the sequence provided by the Random Number Generator. When the customer is contacted a list of 1911 grades and pricing options that are available will be offered for selection of one. As CMP proceeds down the sequenced list less grade and pricing options will be available. Again, this done completely random. Mark Johnson Chief Operating Officer Civilian Marksmanship Program http://www.thecmp.orgThe 4473 background check thing confuses me . . . does that mean that you need to have a NICS check run on a non-existent gun and submit proof that you passed, and THEN you go into a lottery to buy one, and once you buy one then you need to pass another NICS check when the gun actually arrives? Seems weird. I didn't know they could run a NICS without a firearm being transferred. I'm sure NICS is going to be pleased when they get bombarded with 10k frivolous background checks
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Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:50 pm |
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Alpine
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Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 Posts: 7649
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Talked to a vet who carried am army issue 1911 his entire time in the service, and in civilian law enforcement he got permission to keep carrying his own. He's a true 1911 connoisseur. He told me these are for the most part going to be of such crap quality he wouldn't pay more than $300 for one. The article I linked to seems to show that CMP realizes this and doesn't care anyway. I won't be bothering with it. Too bad.
_________________If you vote for Biden you are voting to be murdered when he sends Beto to come take your "semi automatic assault weapon" (any semi auto). If you have family or friends voting for Biden show them this and ask if they are willing to vote for your murder or maybe even their own if they are gun owners or live with any. https://nypost.com/2020/03/03/joe-biden ... n-control/Quote: “I want to make something clear, I’m going to guarantee you this is not the last you’ve seen of him (Beto),” Biden said Monday evening during a campaign rally in Dallas. “You’re (Beto) going to take care of the gun problem with me. You’re (Beto) going to be the one who leads this effort.” https://www.newsweek.com/beto-orourke-g ... ns-1465738Quote: [Beto O'Rourke Suggests Police Would 'Visit' Homes To Implement Proposed Assault Weapons Ban] "In that case, I think that there would be a visit by law enforcement to recover that firearm... ..."If someone does not turn in an AR-15 or an AK-47, one of these weapons of war...then that weapon will be taken from them"
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Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:51 pm |
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dreadi
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
Location: Tacoma, Washington Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 Posts: 8358
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Anyone that wants to spend a $1000 on their clapped out 1911, halla at ya boy.
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Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:58 pm |
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PMB
In Memoriam
Joined: Wed Mar 6, 2013 Posts: 12018
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Do these qualify as C&R? Looks like they wouldn't sell them to an 03, but in other circumstances?
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Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:45 am |
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 52038
Real Name: Steve
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PMB wrote: Do these qualify as C&R? Looks like they wouldn't sell them to an 03, but in other circumstances? If they are more than 50 years old, then yes they are C&R.
_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:47 am |
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PMB
In Memoriam
Joined: Wed Mar 6, 2013 Posts: 12018
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MadPick wrote: PMB wrote: Do these qualify as C&R? Looks like they wouldn't sell them to an 03, but in other circumstances? If they are more than 50 years old, then yes they are C&R. I'll ask my question in a different way. Does anyone know if these 1911s were made prior to 1967 or 1968 (depending on the sale date)? https://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios-relicsQuote: To be recognized as C&R items, 478.11 specifies that firearms must fall within one of the following categories:
1. Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas of such firearms;
2. Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and
3. Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.
Then we have the information that Alpine shared: Alpine wrote: Well it looks like the CMP is set to price gouge these things by possibly 40-100% above their actual value... https://www.thegunwriter.com/23661/cmp- ... plus-1911/Quote: Pricing, Cooper said, is expected to be between $800-$1,000 for shooters.
“It’s hard to say exactly, but a good guess will be around $1,000 minimum,” he said. “One reason for this is that the 1911 is a very valuable pistol. Even though they may be shot out or busted up, we don’t want them falling into the hands of people who will just leave them in a glove box. We want a perceived value — more of an heirloom. We don’t want them considered a standard sidearm. All we need is to have someone commit a liquor store robbery with one and then we’ll be held accountable.
“Their values might be a little bit less, but we want some sort of threshold to prevent anyone from coming in off the street and plunking down $400. I would guess they’d sell for $800 to $1,000 but they’ll go by grade like our M-1s — service grade to collector grade. The rarer ones — ones with all matching numbers or ones carried by celebrities or heroes with provenance, will go to our auction house.” That rat bastard is openly admitting he is going to charge more than their worth to intentionally discriminate against lower income gun owners... Here is the contact info for this clown: (419) 635-2141 Adding those two tidbits together gives us an overlapping picture of C&R status. Many of the pistols are likely over 50 years old, and Mr Cooper clearly indicated that every single one of them qualifies under item #3 of the ATF's own definition. 3. Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.Quote: We want a perceived value — more of an heirloom. We don’t want them considered a standard sidearm.
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Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:16 am |
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