Gun store Shooting Locations It is currently Wed Apr 24, 2024 1:16 am



Rules WGO Chat Room Gear Rent Me Shield NRA SAF CCKRBA
Calendar




Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 Serializing a 80% lower 
Author Message
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Piece/Clallam
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012
Posts: 10688
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014 ... receivers/

_________________
Image

Yaki's - last journey

Promote a Growth Mindset. Don't let a fixed mindset not allow change for the better.

pow·er trip - noun - a self-aggrandizing quest for ever-increasing control over others.


Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:05 pm
Profile
In Memoriam
User avatar
In Memoriam

Joined: Wed Mar 6, 2013
Posts: 12018
I bet that we can agree that the CFRs and ATF's interpretation of them are muddy and complicated.

From the PDF link:
Quote:
Any person (including any corporation or other legal entity) engaged in the business of performing machining, molding, casting, forging, printing (additive manufacturing) or other manufacturing process to create a firearm frame or receiver, or to make a frame or receiver suitable for use as part of a “weapon ... which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive,” i.e., a “firearm,”


Engaged in the business... key words.

I completely agree with you that a quick reading of portions of the CFrs and ATF pages could easily lead one to believe that a homemade firearm must be serialized.
But the CFRs describe their scope and purpose, and in all the relevant ones that I could find those were for NFA items or manufacturing and dealing.
Because homemade firearms are not regulated (unless NFA) no S/N is required.

Before linking more CFRs or ATF docs, consider what I have typed- tell me if I am wrong. I'll do more reading if you think so.


Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:14 pm
Profile
In Memoriam
User avatar
In Memoriam

Joined: Wed Mar 6, 2013
Posts: 12018
Ops wrote:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/11/11/atf-releases-faq-80-percent-receivers/


This is the goofiest of ATF FAQs that I have seen... I understand why there are probably boatloads of people who read #5 in the FAQ as meaning that homemade firearms require a S/N.

Quote:
5. When does a receiver need to have markings and/or serial numbers?
Receivers that meet the definition of a “firearm” must have markings, including a serial number. See 27 CFR § 478.92 (Firearm manufacturers marking requirements).


They were kind enough to give the title of the CFR as well as the number, so we can go to 27 CFR 478.92 and find the scope and purpose, plus the definitions.
They do not apply to a homemade firearm.


Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:17 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: West Olympia
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012
Posts: 6817
Real Name: Matt
How about a simple question. I have an ar10 I built on an 80 percent lower. If I die WTF does the wife do with it?

_________________
"I'm Hub McCann. I've fought in two World Wars and countless smaller ones on three continents. I led thousands of men into battle with everything from horses and swords to artillery and TANKS! I've seen the headwaters of the Nile, and tribes of natives no white man had ever seen before. I've won and lost a dozen fortunes, KILLED MANY MEN! And loved only one woman, with a passion a FLEA like you could never begin to understand. That's who I am. NOW, GO HOME, BOY!"



"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones". Albert Einstein 1947


Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:41 pm
Profile
In Memoriam
User avatar
In Memoriam

Joined: Wed Mar 6, 2013
Posts: 12018
mcyclonegt wrote:
How about a simple question. I have an ar10 I built on an 80 percent lower. If I die WTF does the wife do with it?

Under federal law, she does the same that you would/could do with it. She becomes the legal owner of a homemade firearm. In case of a transfer in Washington she'd need to keep 594 in mind, and in the box for S/N enter “no serial number,” “NSN,” or “none visible” on the Form 4473.

Just don't die Matt. Solves that problem.


Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:52 pm
Profile
User avatar

Location: Puyallup
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012
Posts: 570
Watch the video - he's an attorney. Go to time 7:06. While the topic of the video is 80% lowers, the info on marking applies to any home grown firearm. Short answer; you are NOT required by federal law to mark a non-NFA firearm; However ATF strongly suggests that you do so anyway.


Last edited by gunblaster on Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:05 pm
Profile
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
User avatar
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer

Location: Tacoma, Washington
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014
Posts: 8367
If anyone needs an FFL transfer of any firearms made from an 80% that are not NFA items, I’m marking box as “No Serial Number” and moving on.

_________________
BLACK HAMMER ARMS
Buy A Suppressor http://www.silencershop.com/blackhammerarms
Type 7 Class 2 SOT NFA Dealer
1911 Pistolsmithing
Firearm Refinishing
GLOCK Certified Armorer
CMMG Authorized Dealer
NEMO Arms Authorized Dealer
http://www.blackhammerarms.com
http://www.facebook.com/blackhammerarms
https://www.instagram.com/blackhammerarms/


Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:56 pm
Profile WWW
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Lynnwood/Bothell
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014
Posts: 8565
Real Name: Curtis
Ops, email the local ATF branch. I've done that before with NFA questions, and I've received some good help from local agents. They were very friendly and willing to help.


Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:30 am
Profile
In Memoriam
User avatar
In Memoriam

Location: Tacoma Wa
Joined: Tue Oct 8, 2013
Posts: 16607
Real Name: George Bailey
I'm pretty sure all thats 'kinda ' required is an identifying mark somewhere on the receiver....like a birth date or some other memorable marking.

I was advised IF :rofl9: I ever made an 80% to put the mark in an inconspicuous place. This way if it was stolen the police, if they retrieved it, could ask you what and where the mark was.

Positive ID.

_________________
"Remove one freedom per generation and soon you will have no freedom and no one would have noticed."......Carl Marx

"Let us Cross the river and sit in the shade of the trees" .....Stonewall Jackson

T. Jefferson "....the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. it is it's natural manure"


Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:37 am
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar
Site Admin

Location: Renton, WA
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011
Posts: 52067
Real Name: Steve
Classic wrote:
MadPick wrote:
Did you do a search?

We've had threads on this, with links to ATF letters and other documenting information.



Watching... I did a few searches with no luck but would love to see the link if it exists


Ops wrote:
Classic wrote:

Watching... I did a few searches with no luck but would love to see the link if it exists


I know , I did too, and I also searched google


All right. I did a single Google search for "80% serial number site:waguns.org" and got this:

80% AR lower for pistol build?
A little help please. 80% Non-serialized
80% lowers as pistols
80% AR Lower.... from start to finish
ATF Ruling on machining 80%, Cans, etc.

_________________
Steve

Benefactor Life Member, National Rifle Association
Life Member, Second Amendment Foundation
Patriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of America
Life Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms
Legal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy Coalition
Member, NAGR/NFGR

Please support the organizations that support all of us.

Leave it cleaner than you found it.


Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:28 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Federal Way
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012
Posts: 5492
MadPick wrote:
Classic wrote:
MadPick wrote:
Did you do a search?

We've had threads on this, with links to ATF letters and other documenting information.



Watching... I did a few searches with no luck but would love to see the link if it exists


Ops wrote:
Classic wrote:

Watching... I did a few searches with no luck but would love to see the link if it exists


I know , I did too, and I also searched google


All right. I did a single Google search for "80% serial number site:waguns.org" and got this:

80% AR lower for pistol build?
A little help please. 80% Non-serialized
80% lowers as pistols
80% AR Lower.... from start to finish
ATF Ruling on machining 80%, Cans, etc.



Silly me, I used the search function this site offers.....

_________________
Banned for calling GOD a racist! Oh that's tight, Seattle guns is DEAD!


Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:54 pm
Profile
In Memoriam
User avatar
In Memoriam

Joined: Wed Mar 6, 2013
Posts: 12018
Classic wrote:
Silly me, I used the search function this site offers.....

You have to Google "How to complete search function on WaGuns" to figure that one out.


Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:05 pm
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar
Site Admin

Location: Renton, WA
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011
Posts: 52067
Real Name: Steve
Classic wrote:
Silly me, I used the search function this site offers.....


See this:
viewtopic.php?p=415408#p415408

_________________
Steve

Benefactor Life Member, National Rifle Association
Life Member, Second Amendment Foundation
Patriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of America
Life Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms
Legal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy Coalition
Member, NAGR/NFGR

Please support the organizations that support all of us.

Leave it cleaner than you found it.


Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:06 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Deckerville
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016
Posts: 2946
Real Name: Rob
594 transfers interfamial gift require serial number on what doc?

_________________
“The Democrats are playing you for a political chump and if you vote for them, not only are you a chump, you are a traitor to your race.”-Malcolm X


Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:57 am
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar
Site Admin

Location: Renton, WA
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011
Posts: 52067
Real Name: Steve
SporkBoy wrote:
594 transfers interfamial gift require serial number on what doc?


I don’t understand the question.

_________________
Steve

Benefactor Life Member, National Rifle Association
Life Member, Second Amendment Foundation
Patriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of America
Life Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms
Legal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy Coalition
Member, NAGR/NFGR

Please support the organizations that support all of us.

Leave it cleaner than you found it.


Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:32 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 39 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum



Rules WGO Chat Room Gear Rent Me NRA SAF CCKRBA
Calendar


Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software for PTF.
[ Time : 0.654s | 16 Queries | GZIP : Off ]