Question about 594 private transfers

[3584ELK]

someone is not following the law with no CPL they shouldn't be running a nics check. They have to send it to the local PD . Which FFl is this? you definitely don't want to deal with them.

Which law would this be? I have never been able to find this "law" (more like tribal knowledge) printed in any official publication. Please edify me on this.

BTW, I am not the FFL in question, but if I were, I would be pointing to the FEDERAL statute requiring the licensee to conduct a BGC before transferring the firearm.

WA state regs/ laws/ rules are evidently written in crayon by distracted 3 yr old kids in shitty diapers.

Sorry to veer off topic a bit...

[Unicorn]

someone is not following the law with no CPL they shouldn't be running a nics check. They have to send it to the local PD . Which FFl is this? you definitely don't want to deal with them.

Which law would this be? I have never been able to find this "law" (more like tribal knowledge) printed in any official publication. Please edify me on this.

BTW, I am not the FFL in question, but if I were, I would be pointing to the FEDERAL statute requiring the licensee to conduct a BGC before transferring the firearm.

WA state regs/ laws/ rules are evidently written in crayon by distracted 3 yr old kids in shitty diapers. I think you're giving them too much credit.

Sorry to veer off topic a bit...

There's this...
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/do-all- ... ons-center
The laws are cited.

This has some relevant information,
https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics/about-nics

WA RCW 9.41.090 has something about it too.

Also, the guys at the Seattle Field Office might be able to point out the exact laws. They are pretty helpful from my limited experience with them.

[3584ELK]

Great answer, appreciate you pointing me in that direction!

Last edited by 3584ELK on Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Ops]

As far as violating a law running a background on someone you don't have a legal right to do is a crime.

ATF and the FBI clearly state upon logging in

"Unauthorized or attempted unauthorized access to this computer system, or exceeding or attempting to exceed authorized access to this system is a criminal violation of the law, including Section 1030 of Title 18 of the United States Code."

If someone is getting a pistol and does not have a CPL. You do not have a right to run their background.

[MadPick]

I think we still need to hear from the OP whether this was a handgun or not. Right now the lack of information makes any significant discussion impossible.

[3584ELK]

As far as violating a law running a background on someone you don't have a legal right to do is a crime.

ATF and the FBI clearly state upon logging in

"Unauthorized or attempted unauthorized access to this computer system, or exceeding or attempting to exceed authorized access to this system is a criminal violation of the law, including Section 1030 of Title 18 of the United States Code."

If someone is getting a pistol and does not have a CPL. You do not have a right to run their background.

Not true.

As UNICORN pointed out above, the state POC may be used to run NICS checks. Tell me please, who is that POC?

From 28 CFR 25.2 Definitions: POC (Point of Contact) means a state or local law enforcement agency serving as an intermediary between an FFL and the federal databases checked by the NICS. A POC will receive NICS background check requests from FFLs, check state or local record systems, perform NICS inquiries, determine whether matching records provide information demonstrating that an individual is disqualified from possessing a firearm under Federal or state law, and respond to FFLs with the results of a NICS background check. A POC will be an agency with express or implied authority to perform POC duties pursuant to state statute, regulation, or executive order. Again, the question: who has been designated as POC? In most normal states, it would be the State Patrol...normally.

A person filling out an ATF Form 4473 is making application and once they sign it, a NICS check is required- state laws notwithstanding. Confirmed this with my ATF Industry Operations Inspector. To that point:

28 CFR 25.6 Accessing records in the system.
(a) FFLs may initiate a NICS background check only in connection with a proposed firearm transfer as required by the Brady Act. FFLs are strictly prohibited from initiating a NICS background check for any other purpose. The process of accessing the NICS for the purpose of conducting a NICS background check is initiated by an FFL's contacting the FBI NICS Operations Center (by telephone or electronic dial-up access) or a POC. FFLs in each state will be advised by the ATF whether they are required to initiate NICS background checks with the NICS Operations Center or a POC and how they are to do so.

In my many discussions with my assigned ATF IOI, this has never come up, and the manager of the state Firearms Licensing section has never advised me or even hinted that such was the case. I remain uninformed of a designated POC.

Given the loosey- goosey nature of "laws" in this state vs. federal law, guess which I choose to follow?

Until I see a specific PROHIBITION in print, against running a NICS check on a non- CPL holder, I will continue down the current path.

Additionally, that little box in the upper RH corner of the WA State Pistol Transfer Application has a block named "Approval Code", which is where the NTN number from the NICS check is input.

My experience with the local Barney Fife LEO agencies indicate there is zero understanding of I-594 or the RCW's. Double that with their insistence on using fax machines, and the inherent problems with that technology, I prefer my way of doing business. Do as you please with your FFL and your business.

[Guntrader]

WA CPL qualifies with the feds as NICS exempt, but WA state law still requires it.
Figures.
https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulatio ... rmit-chart

[SporkBoy]

WA CPL qualifies with the feds as NICS exempt, but WA state law still requires it.
Figures.
https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulatio ... rmit-chart

Can you provide the RCW that states such a requirement? The controlling statue clearly says unless exempted by state OR federal law and the federal exemption for CPL holders indicates otherwise.

[Guntrader]

Well, if you know of a WA FFL that does transfers or sales without doing a NICS let me know.

[SporkBoy]

Well, if you know of a WA FFL that does transfers or sales without doing a NICS let me know.

That is not the point.

RCW 90.41.113 (1) ... subject to background check unless specifically exempted by state OR federal law.

The Brady act grants exemption to concealed permit holders.

[Ops]

Not true.

yes true.

if the customer doesn't have a cpl. the dealer doesn't have a right to run his background in Washington.

that is done by the police dept jurisdiction they live in

Last edited by Ops on Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

[MadPick]

Words like "handgun" and "long gun" would make this conversation a lot more enlightening.

[3584ELK]

To reinforce my point above, the ATF has issued Procedure 2017-1 addressing and requiring FFL's to conduct a NICS check, regardless of whether a handgun, shotgun, or rifle is being transferred, and regardless of what your local PD or SO contact tells you:

"I. General Procedure
In all cases:
1. The prospective buyer must complete Section A of the Form 4473;
2. The FFL must complete Section B of the Form 4473, conduct a NICS check on
the prospective buyer, and record the response;"

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/ruling/atf-procedure-2017-1-facilitating-non-ffl-transfers-firearms/download

[SporkBoy]

...

[Mr. Q]

What's the protocol if the buyer doesn't have a CPL, but passed the NICS check? We just wait a certain amount of time and then I hand it over anyway?

Something's not clear here.

Was this a handgun transfer, or a long gun?

I think we still need to hear from the OP whether this was a handgun or not. Right now the lack of information makes any significant discussion impossible.

Words like "handgun" and "long gun" would make this conversation a lot more enlightening.

LOL

Answer the man!!


Also, who is the FFL?

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