Gun store Shooting Locations It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 7:24 am



Rules WGO Chat Room Gear Rent Me Shield NRA SAF CCKRBA
Calendar




Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 The Shockwave and classifications 
Author Message
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Bellingham Canada
Joined: Thu Jan 3, 2013
Posts: 4998
Real Name: Josheewa
Is this legal to carry in a vehicle while loaded? Such a sweet design.

_________________
It must be frustrating always being the smartest person in the room.-Jagerbomber35


Divided we fall.


Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:15 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Seattle
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016
Posts: 765
Real Name: Erik
OhShoot! wrote:
Is this legal to carry in a vehicle while loaded? Such a sweet design.


not a pistol, its a "firearm"


Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:57 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Lynnwood/Bothell
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014
Posts: 8552
Real Name: Curtis
OhShoot! wrote:
Is this legal to carry in a vehicle while loaded? Such a sweet design.

I believe so.

PinSniper wrote:
not a pistol, its a "firearm"

Under federal law, you are correct. But under WA State law, which would be pertinent to OhShoot!'s question of loaded carry in a vehicle, I believe this firearm is a pistol.
RCW 9.41.010 wrote:
(18) "Pistol" means any firearm with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length, or is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand.

RCW 9.41.050 wrote:
(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.


Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:37 pm
Profile
Online
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: NE WA
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011
Posts: 5470
Real Name: The Dude
Guns4Liberty wrote:
OhShoot! wrote:
Is this legal to carry in a vehicle while loaded? Such a sweet design.

I believe so.

PinSniper wrote:
not a pistol, its a "firearm"

Under federal law, you are correct. But under WA State law, which would be pertinent to OhShoot!'s question of loaded carry in a vehicle, I believe this firearm is a pistol.
RCW 9.41.010 wrote:
(18) "Pistol" means any firearm with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length, or is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand.

RCW 9.41.050 wrote:
(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.


Guess it's time to become "trenchcoat guy" and get me a Shockwave shoulder holster.

_________________
"Wherever you go, there you are."


Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:48 pm
Profile
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
User avatar
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer

Location: Bonney Lake, WA
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012
Posts: 2866
It is not a pistol, It is considered a firearm. You need two hands to operate and we will be transfer it as a Other. We do not recommend carrying it loaded in any vehicle due to definitions in the state RCW's. You are encouraged to read state and federal laws in regards to firearms. We are in no such way lawyers and recommend if you have legal questions contact one.

_________________
Brads Guns
253-350-2944

17008 Forest Canyon RD E
Lake Tapps, Wa. 98391



Last edited by Brads Guns & Ammo on Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:05 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Piece/Clallam
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012
Posts: 10688
To clean up a FS thread. what are you impressions on federal and state law

_________________
Image

Yaki's - last journey

Promote a Growth Mindset. Don't let a fixed mindset not allow change for the better.

pow·er trip - noun - a self-aggrandizing quest for ever-increasing control over others.


Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:10 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Spanaway WA
Joined: Wed Jul 6, 2011
Posts: 6301
Real Name: Hugo Stiglitz
They are both unconstitutional?


Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:11 pm
Profile
User avatar

Location: Puyallup
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012
Posts: 569
Although a very "literal" reading of RCW leaves doubt (at least in my mind) as to how these would be classified (under State law), it's hard for me to imagine that a reasonable person (or judge, or 12 jurors) would conclude that these are anything other than short-barreled-shotguns (under State law). Yeah, just my opinion. Your mileage may vary... Go ahead, push the envelope. What could possibly go wrong?


Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:52 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Lynnwood/Bothell
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014
Posts: 8552
Real Name: Curtis
gunblaster wrote:
Although a very "literal" reading of RCW leaves doubt (at least in my mind) as to how these would be classified (under State law), it's hard for me to imagine that a reasonable person (or judge, or 12 jurors) would conclude that these are anything other than short-barreled-shotguns (under State law). Yeah, just my opinion. Your mileage may vary... Go ahead, push the envelope. What could possibly go wrong?

When in doubt, read the RCWs:
RCW 9.41.010 wrote:
(18) "Pistol" means any firearm with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length, or is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand.
(9) "Firearm" means a weapon or device from which a projectile or projectiles may be fired by an explosive such as gunpowder.

Clearly, the Mossberg Shockwave satisfies the definition of "firearm", and also satisfies the first half of the definition of "pistol". The use of the word "or" in between the two halves of the pistol definition is important; just because the Shockwave is designed to be held and fired by the use of two hands does not disqualify it from being classified as a pistol, because it is still a firearm with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length (with pistols, it's an either/or).

Now, let's look at the RCW definition of "shotgun":
RCW 9.41.010 wrote:
(24) "Shotgun" means a weapon with one or more barrels, designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.
(23) "Short-barreled shotgun" means a shotgun having one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length and any weapon made from a shotgun by any means of modification if such modified weapon has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.

The Shockwave is not intended to be fired from the shoulder, so by definition it cannot be a shotgun, which means it also cannot be a short-barreled shotgun.

Thus, it is a firearm under state law - more specifically, a pistol. And, since the only firearm under state law that can be carried loaded in a vehicle is a pistol, I conclude that a Shockwave can be carried loaded in a vehicle according to the RCWs.
RCW 9.41.050 wrote:
(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.


I'd love to hear an argument to the contrary that is supported by the RCWs.


P.S. - You will notice that a SBR also satisfies the first half of the definition of "pistol", so clearly the author of the RCW didn't think this all the way through. But that's not the main topic of discussion at hand, so I'm just throwing this in here as a Fun Fact.


Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:31 am
Profile
User avatar

Location: Oly Wa
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012
Posts: 614
Real Name: Rick
Brads Guns & Ammo wrote:
It is not a pistol, It is considered a firearm. You need two hands to operate and it is transferred as a long gun. We do not recommend carrying it loaded in any vehicle due to definitions in the state RCW's. You are encouraged to read state and federal laws in regards to firearms. We are in no such way lawyers and recommend if you have legal questions contact one.

Meet a guy at the WAC show selling a copycat of the shockwave. He a letter from BATF saying the shockwave is NFA but does not require paperwork? I think he don't know his ass from his 4th point of contact!

_________________
Keep your booger picker off the bang switch till its go time!
Walk tall and carry a big Sig!


Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:15 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Piece/Clallam
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012
Posts: 10688
Actually it requires 2 hands to function so it does not fall under a pistol which is why it has a pump function to load the next round and designed to be operated with both hands

_________________
Image

Yaki's - last journey

Promote a Growth Mindset. Don't let a fixed mindset not allow change for the better.

pow·er trip - noun - a self-aggrandizing quest for ever-increasing control over others.


Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:16 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Lynnwood/Bothell
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014
Posts: 8552
Real Name: Curtis
Ops wrote:
Actually it requires 2 hands to function so it does not fall under a pistol which is why it has a pump function to load the next round and designed to be operated with both hands

Read the RCW pistol definition again...


Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:17 am
Profile
Site Moderator
User avatar
Site Moderator

Location: Marysville
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012
Posts: 13483
Real Name: Mike
Guns4Liberty wrote:
Ops wrote:
Actually it requires 2 hands to function so it does not fall under a pistol which is why it has a pump function to load the next round and designed to be operated with both hands

Read the RCW pistol definition again...


It's a cold day in hell when I agree with Ops, but I think there might be a point here bud. Can the shockwave be fired one handed? Sure. It is "designed" to be fired with one hand? Not sure.

Simply the fact that it is not transferred as a pistol but a "long gun or other firearm" gives me the heebee jeebees when discussing keeping it loaded in a vehicle. IMO if a cop finds this loaded in your vehicle you either A) have some explaining to do and might want to have a copy of the RCW's on hand or B) are going to jail and might want to have a 2A friendly lawyer's phone # on hand.

I don't think anyone is clearly right about this. Is it clearly illegal? No. Is it clearly legal? No. Pretty muddy, this one.

_________________
Licensed/Bonded/Insured Hardwood Floor Installer/Finisher http://www.hardwoodfloorsnw.com/


Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:30 am
Profile
User avatar

Location: Puyallup
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012
Posts: 9065
Real Name: Richard Fitzwelliner
sinus211 wrote:
Guns4Liberty wrote:
Ops wrote:
Actually it requires 2 hands to function so it does not fall under a pistol which is why it has a pump function to load the next round and designed to be operated with both hands

Read the RCW pistol definition again...


It's a cold day in hell when I agree with Ops, but I think there might be a point here bud. Can the shockwave be fired one handed? Sure. It is "designed" to be fired with one hand? Not sure.

Simply the fact that it is not transferred as a pistol but a "long gun or other firearm" gives me the heebee jeebees when discussing keeping it loaded in a vehicle. IMO if a cop finds this loaded in your vehicle you either A) have some explaining to do and might want to have a copy of the RCW's on hand or B) are going to jail and might want to have a 2A friendly lawyer's phone # on hand.

I don't think anyone is clearly right about this. Is it clearly illegal? No. Is it clearly legal? No. Pretty muddy, this one.

And that is the exact point of the gun

_________________
If she sits on your face and you can still hear, SHE'S NOT FAT.

I'm going to type out 3 paragraphs and wax eloquently about a similar story in my life. Pm me if you figured it out.


Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:42 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Lynnwood/Bothell
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014
Posts: 8552
Real Name: Curtis
Did anyone actually read the RCWs and commentary I posted?

A few posts above:
Guns4Liberty wrote:
RCW 9.41.010 wrote:
(18) "Pistol" means any firearm with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length, or is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand.
(9) "Firearm" means a weapon or device from which a projectile or projectiles may be fired by an explosive such as gunpowder.

Clearly, the Mossberg Shockwave satisfies the definition of "firearm", and also satisfies the first half of the definition of "pistol". The use of the word "or" in between the two halves of the pistol definition is important; just because the Shockwave is designed to be held and fired by the use of two hands does not disqualify it from being classified as a pistol, because it is still a firearm with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length (with pistols, it's an either/or).


Also, it should be noted that carry laws are STATE laws and therefore use STATE definitions/classifications.


Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:09 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 47 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 49 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum



Rules WGO Chat Room Gear Rent Me NRA SAF CCKRBA
Calendar


Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software for PTF.
[ Time : 0.663s | 16 Queries | GZIP : Off ]