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Pistol Braces can now legally be "shouldered"
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Site Supporter   Location: Lakewood, WA Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 Posts: 4056 Real Name: brad aka bubba 
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http://www.recoilweb.com/reason-prevail ... 27810.html
Quote: With respect to stabilizing braces, ATF has concluded that attaching the brace to a handgun as a forearm brace does not “make” a short-barreled rifle because in the configuration as submitted to and approved by FATD [Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division], it is not intended to be and cannot comfortably be fired from the shoulder. If, however, the shooter/possessor takes affirmative steps to configure the device for use as a shoulder stock–for example, configuring the brace as to permanently affix it to the end of a buffer tube, (thereby creating a length that has no other purpose than to facilitate its use as a stock), removing the arm-strap, or otherwise undermining its ability to be used as a brace – and then in fact shoots the firearms from the shoulder using the accessory as a shoulder stock that person has objectively “redesigned” the firearm for purposes of the NFA. This conclusion is not based upon the mere fact that the firearm was fired from the shoulder at some point. Therefore, an NFA firearm has not necessarily been made when the device is not re-configured for use as a shoulder stock – even if the attached firearm happens to be fired from the shoulder Read more: http://www.recoilweb.com/reason-prevail ... z4fEArMv8D _________________ ALL MY FIREARMS WILL ONLY BE TRANSFERRED THROUGH I-5 Guns And Ammo (Lacey WA) |
| Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:17 pm |
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Site Supporter  Location: The banana belt of Sequim Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 Posts: 2299 Real Name: Jay
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Quote: This letter applies solely to pistol arm braces which have been submitted to the ATF FTB branch and have received approval. SB Tactical is the only maker to have received this approval. If you have a non-SB Tactical pistol brace, this ruling does not apply to your brace. Shoulder those at your own risk. _________________ Jay The Right to Buy Weapons Is the Right to Be Free |
| Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:22 pm |
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Site Supporter  Location: Seattle Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 Posts: 765 Real Name: Erik
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Cool. I half think the proliferation of the shouldering myth has been out the community's own fascination of how ass backwards such an interpretation was. I was always doubtful that the atf cares, and the letter dies go on to clarify that interpretation was never how the at saw it.
Last edited by PinSniper on Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:01 am, edited 1 time in total. |
| Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:46 pm |
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Site Admin   Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 52020 Real Name: Steve
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This is really awesome news. Finally, a small amount of sanity had been restored!
One bit of the article to note: Quote: If, however, the shooter/possessor takes affirmative steps to configure the device for use as a shoulder stock–for example, configuring the brace as to permanently affix it to the end of a buffer tube, (thereby creating a length that has no other purpose than to facilitate its use as a stock), removing the arm-strap, or otherwise undermining its ability to be used as a brace – and then in fact shoots the firearms from the shoulder using the accessory as a shoulder stock that person has objectively “redesigned” the firearm for purposes of the NFA. Read more: http://www.recoilweb.com/reason-prevail ... z4fEKvOFjU So ... for those with braces that are blocked in an extended position out on a buffer tube, you may still have an issue with those. _________________ Steve Benefactor Life Member, National Rifle Association Life Member, Second Amendment Foundation Patriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of America Life Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms Legal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy Coalition Member, NAGR/NFGR Please support the organizations that support all of us. Leave it cleaner than you found it. |
| Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:59 pm |
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Site Supporter  Location: Nova Laboratories Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 Posts: 18446 Real Name: Johnny 5
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My concern is that they will use this as a means to reclassify the pistol brace as a stock.
In other words, no one would shouldering it because the batfe told them not to. Now that the batfe says that you can shoulder it, there's nothing to say then they won't go back and say that this device was designed to be shouldered, which is why so many people are buying it and using it on their shoulder. _________________ NO DISASSEMBLE! Thomas Paine wrote: "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." |
| Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:24 pm |
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Site Supporter  Location: RENTON Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 Posts: 20771 Real Name: John
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The length issue is a concern as well. The KAK blade tube is adjustable for length, so by the literal interpretation in the aft most position. Is it then a "stock?".
The KAK brace was submitted to the ATF for approval, so how is it someone said only the SD has been approved?? _________________ Mr. Q wrote: so basically, if you have to smoke some asshole, make sure they become fertilizer and then Bounce? got it. Guntrader wrote: Huh, maybe I was an asshole. NRA Member/RSO SAF 5 Year Donor GOA Member |
| Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:53 pm |
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 Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 Posts: 1367
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The KAK brace is as adjustable for length as a savage bold action barrel (i.e. only if you have the right tools).
Glad to see they aren't wasting their time with interpretations that probably wouldn't have held up in court anyway. |
| Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:12 pm |
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Site Supporter Location: RENTON Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 Posts: 20771 Real Name: John
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sreyemj wrote: The KAK brace is as adjustable for length as a savage bold action barrel (i.e. only if you have the right tools). Glad to see they aren't wasting their time with interpretations that probably wouldn't have held up in court anyway. All it takes to adjust for length is an Allen key and indexing to one of the 12 detent positions on the tube. https://www.kakindustry.com/shockwave/shockwave-tube What's so hard about that?  _________________ Mr. Q wrote: so basically, if you have to smoke some asshole, make sure they become fertilizer and then Bounce? got it. Guntrader wrote: Huh, maybe I was an asshole. NRA Member/RSO SAF 5 Year Donor GOA Member |
| Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:18 pm |
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Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 Posts: 1367
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usrifle wrote: All it takes to adjust for length is an Allen key and indexing to one of the 12 detent positions on the tube. https://www.kakindustry.com/shockwave/shockwave-tube What's so hard about that? Nothing, except there seems to be three levels of movement in the ATF's murkey interpretation: -Adjustable w/o tools -Adjustable w/tools like an Allen wrench -Permanently fixed in place with a blind pin. Interestingly, they often want one end of a barrel to be fixed with a blind welded pin (i.e. the flash hider) but the receiver end does not have to be even though a 16" barrel on some firearms could be screwed in to create an illegal SBR (although the bolt would no longer fit). My point is that the ATFs interpretation of "the rules" and whether the KAK brace is considered adjustable with an Allen wrench may be somewhat arbitrary, and it would be nice to see them provide as much clarity as possible especially for a product class that has become very popular. |
| Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:50 am |
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Site Supporter  Location: Everson, WA Joined: Sun Jan 6, 2013 Posts: 28174 Real Name: Ace Winky
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Good. I guess.
To me, it's just more and more proof that guns laws are quite nonsensical. _________________ Why does the Penguin in Batman sound like a duck? Because the eagle sounds like a hawk. |
| Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:30 am |
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Site Supporter  Location: Kansas City Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2012 Posts: 2790 Real Name: Brad
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Pablo wrote: Good. I guess. To me, it's just more and more proof that guns laws are quite nonsensical. Right? If they can't properly and realistically define the law, and the impact the law has, is it really just to be a law? |
| Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:19 am |
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Site Supporter  Location: Nampa, Idaho Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 Posts: 19461 Real Name: Rick
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I might have shouldered one of those in the past and might shoulder one of those in the future.
Doesn't the ATF have better things to do? _________________ ‘What’s the point of being a citizen if an illegal gets all the benefits’ |
| Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:40 am |
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Site Supporter  Location: Lynnwood/Bothell Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 Posts: 8561 Real Name: Curtis
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"BATF - We waffle more than the International House of Pancakes."
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| Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:36 am |
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 Location: North Seattle Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 Posts: 603 Real Name: Paul
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usrifle wrote: sreyemj wrote: The KAK brace is as adjustable for length as a savage bold action barrel (i.e. only if you have the right tools). Glad to see they aren't wasting their time with interpretations that probably wouldn't have held up in court anyway. All it takes to adjust for length is an Allen key and indexing to one of the 12 detent positions on the tube. https://www.kakindustry.com/shockwave/shockwave-tube What's so hard about that? You can even legally have pistol braces that are adjustable without tools as long as it's on a proproetary buffer tube that can't accept a stock, like the SBPDW or Tailhook Mod 2. https://www.sb-tactical.com/product/sbpdw/ http://www.gearheadworks.com/index.php? ... ucts_id=25 |
| Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:01 am |
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Site Supporter  Location: NE WA Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 Posts: 5483 Real Name: The Dude
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Mine isn't on a buffer tube, but it is on a side folder kit. Please guv'nah if it pleases the crown may I shoulder me AK pistol?
_________________ "Wherever you go, there you are." |
| Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:41 am |
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