Gun store Shooting Locations It is currently Fri Apr 19, 2024 8:28 pm



Rules WGO Chat Room Gear Rent Me Shield NRA SAF CCKRBA
Calendar




Reply to topic  [ 54 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 Absurd long-distance shooting 
Author Message
In Memoriam
User avatar
In Memoriam

Location: Tacoma Wa
Joined: Tue Oct 8, 2013
Posts: 16607
Real Name: George Bailey
old11bravo wrote:
WaJim wrote:
Its 4:53 am on a Sunday...I'm driving to Custer for a USPSA match....from Tacoma.

Now thats absurd.

Long distance shooting...?... :snipersmilie:


Yep.....drove a long distance (150mi) at a very early time (got up at 4:30) on a Sunday to go shooting.

Some would consider that absurd.

Was being a smartass :bigsmile:

_________________
"Remove one freedom per generation and soon you will have no freedom and no one would have noticed."......Carl Marx

"Let us Cross the river and sit in the shade of the trees" .....Stonewall Jackson

T. Jefferson "....the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. it is it's natural manure"


Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:42 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Marysville, WA
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011
Posts: 11581
Real Name: Mike
Trying to shoot a .308 at targets a mile away is like trying to hit a pop can at 100 yards by throwing rocks.

IF you hit it it will be total luck.

Go ahead and play with it if you wish but don't hold your expectations too high. Another factor that you can't ignore is the amount of energy left on the bullet when it reaches a mile. It may not have enough energy or momentum to keep a Gopher Fart from blowing it off the target.

You were right in the title, absurd.

_________________
"I've learned from the Dog that an afternoon nap is a good thing"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
" - William Shakespeare


Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:55 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Snohomish, WA
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012
Posts: 1369
Real Name: Bo
deadshot2 wrote:
Trying to shoot a .308 at targets a mile away is like trying to hit a pop can at 100 yards by throwing rocks.

IF you hit it it will be total luck.

Go ahead and play with it if you wish but don't hold your expectations too high. Another factor that you can't ignore is the amount of energy left on the bullet when it reaches a mile. It may not have enough energy or momentum to keep a Gopher Fart from blowing it off the target.

You were right in the title, absurd.


While I would normally agree with you; I would not feel safe standing downrange at 1-mile while anyone is attempting the shot. Sure the terminal velocity is decreased but a 168gr+ bullet traveling at 600fps by the time it reaches 1-mile is still going to leave a mark. Getting a 308Win to hit a 1-mile target has more to do with Wind reads than anything else.

_________________
"I don't know what it's called. I just know the sound it makes, when it takes a man's life." ~ Four Leaf Tayback


Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:18 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: NE WA
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011
Posts: 5490
Real Name: The Dude
BlDtyLry wrote:
deadshot2 wrote:
Trying to shoot a .308 at targets a mile away is like trying to hit a pop can at 100 yards by throwing rocks.

IF you hit it it will be total luck.

Go ahead and play with it if you wish but don't hold your expectations too high. Another factor that you can't ignore is the amount of energy left on the bullet when it reaches a mile. It may not have enough energy or momentum to keep a Gopher Fart from blowing it off the target.

You were right in the title, absurd.


While I would normally agree with you; I would not feel safe standing downrange at 1-mile while anyone is attempting the shot. Sure the terminal velocity is decreased but a 168gr+ bullet traveling at 600fps by the time it reaches 1-mile is still going to leave a mark. Getting a 308Win to hit a 1-mile target has more to do with Wind reads than anything else.


Yep. You still have .38 Special hitting power there. Plenty to kill. I've seen a 5.56 M855 almost punch through a flak jacket (yes I know this isn't much ballistic protection) at 3k...probably only in the 500-600fps range. Get hit in the eye, neck, or the temple and you're still dead or very badly wounded. The problem is as stated; your ability to actually hit a man sized target at a mile is getting into dumb luck territory.

_________________
"Wherever you go, there you are."


Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:09 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: South Seattle
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015
Posts: 495
WaJim wrote:
old11bravo wrote:
WaJim wrote:
Its 4:53 am on a Sunday...I'm driving to Custer for a USPSA match....from Tacoma.

Now thats absurd.

Long distance shooting...?... :snipersmilie:


Yep.....drove a long distance (150mi) at a very early time (got up at 4:30) on a Sunday to go shooting.

Some would consider that absurd.

Was being a smartass :bigsmile:
Getting up at 4:30 am is not absurd at all. I do this 90% of the time as to avoid the undesirables at the pits

_________________
A sniper without a sniper rifle is just a guy with a gun.


Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:20 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Tri -Cities
Joined: Thu May 23, 2013
Posts: 2798
Real Name: David
MADrtcw wrote:
Getting up at 4:30 am is not absurd at all. I do this 90% of the time as to avoid the undesirables at the pits


Shooting with undesirables at the pit is absurd...0430? Not so much.
As for a mile, I would start small and work your way up. Do lots of dry fire drills! Does wonders for accuracy.


Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:53 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Sumner, WA
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012
Posts: 3025
Real Name: Dan
And here I am.... modestly hoping to do 1000 yards this year with my new 308.

Last 2 years I did 600, 700 yards with a 22-250.....

I thought I was stepping up my game.....

Shit.

:AR15firing:

_________________
US2A.org is done. Closed.

From a blog: Political Correctness - the belief that one can pick up a turd by the clean end.

Benjamin Franklin: It is the (civic) responsibility of every citizen to question authority.


Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:21 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Marysville, WA
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011
Posts: 11581
Real Name: Mike
hkcavalier wrote:

Yep. You still have .38 Special hitting power there. Plenty to kill.



More like .380 ACP with a 100 gr bullet. At 1800 yards (mile is 1760) a SMK at standard muzzle velocities has just over 225 ft/lbs of energy. This ASSUMES that when the bullet went transonic it didn't slow down more than the ballistic's calculators predict. Bullets start to wobble and present their sides to the air as they travel through the transonic zone which causes them to slow far more than most can predict. This is why Sierra and most other bullet manufacturers have multiple BC listings that depend on speed. Not muzzle velocity but actual speed at the various stages along it's path.


Several LR shooters hold that the only way to get a 168 gr bullet that far downrange is to put it in your truck and drive it there :rofl9:

_________________
"I've learned from the Dog that an afternoon nap is a good thing"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
" - William Shakespeare


Tue Mar 08, 2016 8:36 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Marysville, WA
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011
Posts: 11581
Real Name: Mike
.....

_________________
"I've learned from the Dog that an afternoon nap is a good thing"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
" - William Shakespeare


Tue Mar 08, 2016 8:37 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Puyallup
Joined: Thu Jul 5, 2012
Posts: 3067
Real Name: Glenn(sted)
Use a full sheet of plywood. I've used smaller targets but there's more area to see if the drift and drop is more than anticipated.
I use a marine grade piece that I leave at my spot, bring a fresh roll of masking paper to tape on for figuring the fresh holes.
Regardless of spotting scope, at least mine, I still have to get eyeballs on it from short distance. Generally shoot a handful, then drive over to look.
Good luck. Be interesting to see how it turns out.


Tue Mar 08, 2016 8:28 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Seattle
Joined: Wed Feb 5, 2014
Posts: 381
Real Name: Tim
What you should probably do is, practice enough with your rifle that you get a feel for fundamentals of long distance shooting. How to hold the rifle, your body, when to shoot during your breathing cycle, paying attention to your heartbeat, at longer distances I notice my heartbeat in my reticle. With a 5R you should be shooting at .5-.75 MOA at 100 yards with very little thought, it may take trying out different bullet companies and weights to find what your rifle prefers, but you will need to do this anyway. My rifle shot 1 MOA with 168gr SMK's, then when I switched to 175gr SMK's, it dropped down into the .25-.3 MOA consistent range. You have a slower twist than my barrel, 1:11.25 compared to 1:10 on my rifle, so it's hard to say how your mileage might vary.

Since this is your first real rifle, after you purchase your decided upon scope, take it to the range and get a VERY good zero on it. Read up, and watch youtube videos on how to do so, then go down and learn the rifle inside out while setting a zero. For a true zero that will need to go out to 1000+, this is something you will have to do yourself. Each of our eyes work different from another, my 20/10 vision will see different things from those with 20/20, and especially those whom wear glasses. You will also need to rezero for whatever bullet your rifle likes, and you will end up reforming your hold/grip as you become more comfortable with your rifle, and that will change your zero as well. Doing all of this, figuring it all out, will help you become more proficient with your rifle, and help you familiarize yourself with it.

When testing out ammunition, try for group size, don't worry about it hitting the center of your crosshairs. Aim at the same spot, do a 5 shot group, 3 doesn't tell you shit, and see what size group you get. Do this with the entire box of ammo in 4 different spots on the target, as each group shouldn't get any bigger than 3 inches, even if your rifle hates that ammo. Then put up a fresh target and move onto the next type of ammo, and repeat. This should alleviate any flukes you might get with a single grouping, and then tell you the differences between the different ammunition and how your rifle likes or dislikes each.

There is a LOT of science to long distance/precision shooting, and the above isn't even scratching the surface. It goes so far as to how often you clean your rifle, how you foul a newly cleaned barrel or if you prefer a dirty barrel to a clean one. (Dirty for me.) Start reading, and expect this to be a goal for quite some time to come. 1 mile with a .308 isn't nearly as undoable as many on here will lead you to believe, stick with it and you will reach your goal.

_________________
"It's a nasty truth, but those who seek to inflict harm are not fazed by gun control laws." - Ronald Reagan


Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:48 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011
Posts: 4094
Check with Kenny Wasserberger at Lusk Wyoming. Each year he puts on a 1 mile event using Black Powder Cartridge rifles with IRON Aperture sights.

_________________
FREE MEN do not need permission

I Believe in the United States of America as a government of the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign Nation of many sovereign States; a perfect union, one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice, and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes. I believe it is my duty to my country to love it, to support its Constitution, to obey its laws, to respect its flag, and to defend it against all enemies."
William Tyler Page 1917


Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:30 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: NE WA
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011
Posts: 5490
Real Name: The Dude
Old Jim wrote:
Check with Kenny Wasserberger at Lusk Wyoming. Each year he puts on a 1 mile event using Black Powder Cartridge rifles with IRON Aperture sights.


That's pretty remarkable...especially when you consider there's a stiff breeze 24/7 in that part of WY. Never ever calm on the high prairie.

_________________
"Wherever you go, there you are."


Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:39 am
Profile
User avatar

Location: Lacey
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013
Posts: 176
Real Name: Tom
Old Jim wrote:
Check with Kenny Wasserberger at Lusk Wyoming. Each year he puts on a 1 mile event using Black Powder Cartridge rifles with IRON Aperture sights.


Isn't that basically how the Creedmore Cup match began?

_________________
Practice does NOT make perfect. Perfection is an Ideal and thus cannot exist in the real world. To seek perfection is to set yourself up for failure. Instead, strive for Excellence. Excellence is an attainable goal - Coach George Yamamoto, Mililani High School, RIP


Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:08 am
Profile
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
User avatar
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer

Location: Kent
Joined: Sat Mar 2, 2013
Posts: 741
Real Name: Kelly Bachand
I know of some folks that shoot their Palma rifles (.308 target rifle, prone with a sling, iron aperture sights) out to 2000+ yards. It's a silly sport and they acknowledge that. The targets they shoot are 25' x 25' or greater in size and usually metallic with a fresh coat of white paint. They shoot at them for a while, while a guy hiding behind a berm uses a stick to point at their hits for them. After a bit of shooting he scoots out and paints over the hits and they begin again.

That same group of folks once told me that of all the .308 projectiles in existence, the SMK 175 grain had the most interesting ability to re-stabilize after passing through destabilization (happens when moving from super to sub-sonic). I don't know of this phenomena being documented anywhere, it was given to me by word of mouth, but it came from reputable sources.

The obvious bummer is that while the bullet has destabilized, it can make some pretty egregious course changes. That being said, they all swore by the SMK 175 grain when shooting a .308 Win at silly-stupid-no-reason-but-for-fun-distances.
Best,

_________________
Kelly Bachand

About, facebook, twitter, wiki


Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:02 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 54 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CQBgopher, reginald_burrito and 60 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum



Rules WGO Chat Room Gear Rent Me NRA SAF CCKRBA
Calendar


Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software for PTF.
[ Time : 3.787s | 19 Queries | GZIP : Off ]