Frontline Powder Coating and Body Work
Mon Feb 05, 2024 9:22 pm
January 18th 2024 I learned from Les Schwab that I had a damaged wheel that was causing air to leak. They could not fix it. I called Titus-Will and they recommended Frontline. I called Frontline was told to bring the truck over and they would take the wheel off and put the spare on. I drove from Les Schwab to Frontline.
I had to drop the spare because the guy taking off the wheel didn't know how. I drop it, he puts it on. I checked the air pressure and it was acceptable. Drove home. Checked in the next day and I was told it would be next week. Ok. I check in a week later was told the wheel was fixed and the tire had to be put on. Another week goes by and I haven't heard from him.
Saturday February 3rd I call and leave a message. The business number is a cell phone.
Sunday morning I head to Ellensburg for dog training/pheasant hunt. Part of the drive is off the pavement and I think I hear something strange. When I get out and check, this is what I find:
That's two broken stems, two missing lug nuts and two loose lug nuts. Dang..how long has it been like that? On the highway, just on this primitive road you need four wheel drive on?
I texted the business number and told him my opinion is that his employee didn't install the wheel correctly. This morning (Monday) promptly at 9am I get a text reply saying he doesn't know how that could have happened because everything is correctly torqued, and that I could pickup my wheel. I responded by saying, it happens when they are not torqued correctly and that I will pick up the wheel if Titus finishes fixing the issue today.
After the hunt/training I tightened the remaining lugs and checked them a few times before we got to a paved road and one more time on the paved road. We got to Napa in Ellensburg and they divinely had two lug nuts! Got everything as tight as I could and down the road I went. Made two stops to check the nuts and really had to about injure myself to get the nuts to torque down and stay tight. But they stayed all the way home.
I was fortunate to find Titus had an opening this morning for service at 7:30am and they got the job done today. Afterward I drove over to pickup my wheel and have them put it on. The owner came out and looked at it and asked how it happened, in a non defensive way. I know how nuts get loose...they aren't torqued correctly and home loose. Again I have to deal with the spare myself after the same guy took it off that had put it on. I checked the work on the repaired wheel before he put it on. Then I watched him put the wheel back on and torque it. He tells me he torqued it to 110ft/lbs. I back out the bay and park, then text the owner asking how he'd like to settle up. 15 minutes goes by and no response but I can see him in the service bays. They don't have an unlocked door to just walk in and ask for someone.
Then I decided to open my owners manual and check for a wheel lug torque spec. Well, wouldn't you know it...2013 F150 torque spec is 150ft/lbs. Magically the waiting area door is open and I walk in and a dude sees me. I speak and he just turns and walks away with the owner. So I decided to collect myself and wait. Got sick of waiting and walked to the back and found another guy sitting a desk and told him what's up. He takes me to John, the owner. I told John what his employee told me he torqued it to and that the owner's manual states that it's 150ft/lbs. The surprise look...he tells his guy to up the torque to 150. He goes outside and torqued all the nuts on that wheel. He offered to check the others as well. I accept the offer and I watch as each nut gives immediate feedback to his torque driver indicating they were at least 150 each.
I drove home without incident.
Frontline Wheel Repair in Tacoma gets a D- because I didn't die.
BLACK HAMMER ARMS
07/02 NFA Dealer
http://www.blackhammerarms.com
http://www.facebook.com/blackhammerarms
https://www.instagram.com/blackhammerarms
I had to drop the spare because the guy taking off the wheel didn't know how. I drop it, he puts it on. I checked the air pressure and it was acceptable. Drove home. Checked in the next day and I was told it would be next week. Ok. I check in a week later was told the wheel was fixed and the tire had to be put on. Another week goes by and I haven't heard from him.
Saturday February 3rd I call and leave a message. The business number is a cell phone.
Sunday morning I head to Ellensburg for dog training/pheasant hunt. Part of the drive is off the pavement and I think I hear something strange. When I get out and check, this is what I find:
That's two broken stems, two missing lug nuts and two loose lug nuts. Dang..how long has it been like that? On the highway, just on this primitive road you need four wheel drive on?
I texted the business number and told him my opinion is that his employee didn't install the wheel correctly. This morning (Monday) promptly at 9am I get a text reply saying he doesn't know how that could have happened because everything is correctly torqued, and that I could pickup my wheel. I responded by saying, it happens when they are not torqued correctly and that I will pick up the wheel if Titus finishes fixing the issue today.
After the hunt/training I tightened the remaining lugs and checked them a few times before we got to a paved road and one more time on the paved road. We got to Napa in Ellensburg and they divinely had two lug nuts! Got everything as tight as I could and down the road I went. Made two stops to check the nuts and really had to about injure myself to get the nuts to torque down and stay tight. But they stayed all the way home.
I was fortunate to find Titus had an opening this morning for service at 7:30am and they got the job done today. Afterward I drove over to pickup my wheel and have them put it on. The owner came out and looked at it and asked how it happened, in a non defensive way. I know how nuts get loose...they aren't torqued correctly and home loose. Again I have to deal with the spare myself after the same guy took it off that had put it on. I checked the work on the repaired wheel before he put it on. Then I watched him put the wheel back on and torque it. He tells me he torqued it to 110ft/lbs. I back out the bay and park, then text the owner asking how he'd like to settle up. 15 minutes goes by and no response but I can see him in the service bays. They don't have an unlocked door to just walk in and ask for someone.
Then I decided to open my owners manual and check for a wheel lug torque spec. Well, wouldn't you know it...2013 F150 torque spec is 150ft/lbs. Magically the waiting area door is open and I walk in and a dude sees me. I speak and he just turns and walks away with the owner. So I decided to collect myself and wait. Got sick of waiting and walked to the back and found another guy sitting a desk and told him what's up. He takes me to John, the owner. I told John what his employee told me he torqued it to and that the owner's manual states that it's 150ft/lbs. The surprise look...he tells his guy to up the torque to 150. He goes outside and torqued all the nuts on that wheel. He offered to check the others as well. I accept the offer and I watch as each nut gives immediate feedback to his torque driver indicating they were at least 150 each.
I drove home without incident.
Frontline Wheel Repair in Tacoma gets a D- because I didn't die.
BLACK HAMMER ARMS
07/02 NFA Dealer
http://www.blackhammerarms.com
http://www.facebook.com/blackhammerarms
https://www.instagram.com/blackhammerarms
Re: Frontline Powder Coating and Body Work
Tue Feb 06, 2024 4:20 pm
Damn, that could have made for a really shitty trip. Good thing you caught it before you saw your tire passing you on I90!
Re: Frontline Powder Coating and Body Work
Wed Feb 07, 2024 5:26 am
Holy crap. That's a scary photo!
I'm doubtful that they were even torqued to 110 ft-lb the first time around, though . . . .
I'm doubtful that they were even torqued to 110 ft-lb the first time around, though . . . .
Re: Frontline Powder Coating and Body Work
Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:16 am
You have ALL the fun D!
Re: Frontline Powder Coating and Body Work
Wed Feb 07, 2024 11:34 am
If I had to guess, the dumbfucks WAY overtorqued on the two studs that busted off, so backed way off to too little on the others.
Criminal level of incompetence.
Criminal level of incompetence.
Re: Frontline Powder Coating and Body Work
Wed Feb 07, 2024 12:29 pm
Just an FYI, the difference between torquing those at 110 vs 150 would not cause those to fail.
Your truck has metric studs either M12 or M14. If they are M12, 150lbs is too much.
If they are the M14 then 150lbs is on the very high end of what that stud is designed for.
Plus the spare they bolted on is a steel wheel that clamps down much differently than (I assume your normal rims are aluminum) your standard wheels. Your standard wheels (if alum) are SOLID and a clean and secure clamping force is ideal.
The spare however has a surface that is STAMPED and is cone shaped up to the lug seating edge. This provided a bit of "preload" to be built into the fastener. So when the lug makes contact with the rim, the next turn or so is actually flexing the coned upward portion of the rim inward and creating a spring loaded connection.
As long as you have nice new/clean studs/lugs you will notice that when loosening a lug on an ALUM rim, that as soon as you turn it about 1/4 turn it spins freely. Where on a steel rim you will feel resistance for about a 1-1.5 turns and then it will spin off freely. If you watch closely you can actually see it flex when tightening or loosening.
I would guess that the failure was probably either caused by not being tightened much at all past snug, or by a dirty wheel.
Spares sit flat under a pickup bed and accumulate lots of road grime and if the mating surface is not wiped clean before installation it will need to a loose wheel once the debris works out while going down the road.
Either way, they touched it last before failure.
Your truck has metric studs either M12 or M14. If they are M12, 150lbs is too much.
If they are the M14 then 150lbs is on the very high end of what that stud is designed for.
Plus the spare they bolted on is a steel wheel that clamps down much differently than (I assume your normal rims are aluminum) your standard wheels. Your standard wheels (if alum) are SOLID and a clean and secure clamping force is ideal.
The spare however has a surface that is STAMPED and is cone shaped up to the lug seating edge. This provided a bit of "preload" to be built into the fastener. So when the lug makes contact with the rim, the next turn or so is actually flexing the coned upward portion of the rim inward and creating a spring loaded connection.
As long as you have nice new/clean studs/lugs you will notice that when loosening a lug on an ALUM rim, that as soon as you turn it about 1/4 turn it spins freely. Where on a steel rim you will feel resistance for about a 1-1.5 turns and then it will spin off freely. If you watch closely you can actually see it flex when tightening or loosening.
I would guess that the failure was probably either caused by not being tightened much at all past snug, or by a dirty wheel.
Spares sit flat under a pickup bed and accumulate lots of road grime and if the mating surface is not wiped clean before installation it will need to a loose wheel once the debris works out while going down the road.
Either way, they touched it last before failure.