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 Amazon Echo Dot 
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Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:20 pm
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http://www.ibtimes.com/alexa-connected- ... on-2505584


Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:38 pm
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Just thought I'd pitch in my two cents here.

If you're worried about the dot you should probably also be worried about pretty much everything else.

You should be worried about things like your laptop because, well, it probably has a mic as well as a webcam. Attacks utilizing those are not theoretical, either; malware that flips on the cameras has been in use for many years by just about everybody as a scare tactic. It's good advice if you worry about this sort of thing to cover your webcam, but the mic is harder to deal with.

Your desktop may have a webcam, and if it does the same problems apply. Both desktop and laptop operating systems are fairly open from a security standpoint compared to what would be common in a modern cellphone. Webcams by themselves are super duper vulnerable. If you're curious, there's a service called shodan.io that lets you scan every public host on the internet looking for things like that, and whaddya know there are tons of open webcams out there. Don't be evil.

Speaking of cellphones, those of course have microphones as well. Attacks utilizing these are also not theoretical. Additionally, they have GPS and can get a very good idea of your location even with it turned off. In the past there have been attacks similar to the 'weeping angel' style malware recently discussed by wikileaks where phones were placed into quiescent states that look off, but which transmit information back to a central server. And while the major mobile OS vendors (Google, Apple) do a good job in terms of security on those platforms there are important parts of modern phones they do not control, particularly the baseband (radio) which runs its own OS and often plays an important role in early boot.

But wait, there's more! As it turns out, speakers can often be turned into low quality microphones if you're determined. So even if you remove the mics from the above, you still may be observable. And then there's the really exciting stuff: laser mics can be built for just a few dollars, and even cheap ones are good enough to 'listen' to the pins dropping in a lock. Really good ones can listen to conversations a few hundred yards away, or so I'm told (I've never personally handled the expensive ones). Radar good enough to see inside of your home is pretty cheap to build now, too.

So, that's pretty much all your electronics, your doors, your windows, and the walls of your house. Your car is basically defenseless most of the day, so bugging it is easy and most of the electronics in it are hilariously poorly secured anyway, so that's out. Pretty much all that's left is the dog, and mine would sell me out for a ham sandwich. And your guns, of course. As long as mine don't learn to like ham I think I'm safe.


Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:56 pm
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I have 3 of them I love them. Turn on my lights with thre words. Ask for info like weather and game scores. Always improving the dot so it gets better.


Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:08 pm
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Goomer214 wrote:
I have 3 of them I love them. Turn on my lights with thre words. Ask for info like weather and game scores. Always improving the dot so it gets better.


I was surprised how much they had improved in the six months between moving into my own place and getting one for Christmas. I liked it before, and I like it better every day!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:07 am
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debatem1 wrote:
Just thought I'd pitch in my two cents here.

If you're worried about the dot you should probably also be worried about pretty much everything else.

You should be worried about things like your laptop because, well, it probably has a mic as well as a webcam. Attacks utilizing those are not theoretical, either; malware that flips on the cameras has been in use for many years by just about everybody as a scare tactic. It's good advice if you worry about this sort of thing to cover your webcam, but the mic is harder to deal with.

Your desktop may have a webcam, and if it does the same problems apply. Both desktop and laptop operating systems are fairly open from a security standpoint compared to what would be common in a modern cellphone. Webcams by themselves are super duper vulnerable. If you're curious, there's a service called shodan.io that lets you scan every public host on the internet looking for things like that, and whaddya know there are tons of open webcams out there. Don't be evil.

Speaking of cellphones, those of course have microphones as well. Attacks utilizing these are also not theoretical. Additionally, they have GPS and can get a very good idea of your location even with it turned off. In the past there have been attacks similar to the 'weeping angel' style malware recently discussed by wikileaks where phones were placed into quiescent states that look off, but which transmit information back to a central server. And while the major mobile OS vendors (Google, Apple) do a good job in terms of security on those platforms there are important parts of modern phones they do not control, particularly the baseband (radio) which runs its own OS and often plays an important role in early boot.

But wait, there's more! As it turns out, speakers can often be turned into low quality microphones if you're determined. So even if you remove the mics from the above, you still may be observable. And then there's the really exciting stuff: laser mics can be built for just a few dollars, and even cheap ones are good enough to 'listen' to the pins dropping in a lock. Really good ones can listen to conversations a few hundred yards away, or so I'm told (I've never personally handled the expensive ones). Radar good enough to see inside of your home is pretty cheap to build now, too.

So, that's pretty much all your electronics, your doors, your windows, and the walls of your house. Your car is basically defenseless most of the day, so bugging it is easy and most of the electronics in it are hilariously poorly secured anyway, so that's out. Pretty much all that's left is the dog, and mine would sell me out for a ham sandwich. And your guns, of course. As long as mine don't learn to like ham I think I'm safe.


Yeah.

All that is a convincing argument why, if I am concerned about big brother watching, and/or listening, I might as well just dig into my own pocket and pay for the latest greatest method for them to do so. (Because they will find some other way to listen and watch, anyway.)




Yeesh, when did the argument become backwards? Instead of demanding legislation to try to reel in their 'spying' on innocent US citizens... Now the argument is that you might as well pay out of your own pocket for the latest thing that gives them more bells and whistles, because they are doing it anyway... :frust: :cussing:

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Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:51 pm
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Meh.

Keeping my copper land line rotary dial phone.

At least I can tell it to fuck off without having a SWAT team taking me down for thought crime.

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Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:39 pm
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RENCORP wrote:
Meh.

Keeping my copper land line rotary dial phone.

At least I can tell it to fuck off without having a SWAT team taking me down for thought crime.


Where I live, in the last ten years, the power has been out maybe 60 or 70 times. Once, for over 2 months.

In every case except one, the copper landline still worked just fine! (NOT the over two month one. It worked fine, the entire time.)

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Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:51 pm
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Selador wrote:
debatem1 wrote:
Just thought I'd pitch in my two cents here.

If you're worried about the dot you should probably also be worried about pretty much everything else.

You should be worried about things like your laptop because, well, it probably has a mic as well as a webcam. Attacks utilizing those are not theoretical, either; malware that flips on the cameras has been in use for many years by just about everybody as a scare tactic. It's good advice if you worry about this sort of thing to cover your webcam, but the mic is harder to deal with.

Your desktop may have a webcam, and if it does the same problems apply. Both desktop and laptop operating systems are fairly open from a security standpoint compared to what would be common in a modern cellphone. Webcams by themselves are super duper vulnerable. If you're curious, there's a service called shodan.io that lets you scan every public host on the internet looking for things like that, and whaddya know there are tons of open webcams out there. Don't be evil.

Speaking of cellphones, those of course have microphones as well. Attacks utilizing these are also not theoretical. Additionally, they have GPS and can get a very good idea of your location even with it turned off. In the past there have been attacks similar to the 'weeping angel' style malware recently discussed by wikileaks where phones were placed into quiescent states that look off, but which transmit information back to a central server. And while the major mobile OS vendors (Google, Apple) do a good job in terms of security on those platforms there are important parts of modern phones they do not control, particularly the baseband (radio) which runs its own OS and often plays an important role in early boot.

But wait, there's more! As it turns out, speakers can often be turned into low quality microphones if you're determined. So even if you remove the mics from the above, you still may be observable. And then there's the really exciting stuff: laser mics can be built for just a few dollars, and even cheap ones are good enough to 'listen' to the pins dropping in a lock. Really good ones can listen to conversations a few hundred yards away, or so I'm told (I've never personally handled the expensive ones). Radar good enough to see inside of your home is pretty cheap to build now, too.

So, that's pretty much all your electronics, your doors, your windows, and the walls of your house. Your car is basically defenseless most of the day, so bugging it is easy and most of the electronics in it are hilariously poorly secured anyway, so that's out. Pretty much all that's left is the dog, and mine would sell me out for a ham sandwich. And your guns, of course. As long as mine don't learn to like ham I think I'm safe.


Yeah.

All that is a convincing argument why, if I am concerned about big brother watching, and/or listening, I might as well just dig into my own pocket and pay for the latest greatest method for them to do so. (Because they will find some other way to listen and watch, anyway.)




Yeesh, when did the argument become backwards? Instead of demanding legislation to try to reel in their 'spying' on innocent US citizens... Now the argument is that you might as well pay out of your own pocket for the latest thing that gives them more bells and whistles, because they are doing it anyway... :frust: :cussing:


I'm not arguing for the dot-- I don't own one-- but I am pointing out that if you're concerned about the dot for this reason it probably isn't going to make a big difference in your security posture against a really big skilled adversary.


Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:28 pm
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Selador wrote:
RENCORP wrote:
Meh.

Keeping my copper land line rotary dial phone.

At least I can tell it to fuck off without having a SWAT team taking me down for thought crime.


Where I live, in the last ten years, the power has been out maybe 60 or 70 times. Once, for over 2 months.

In every case except one, the copper landline still worked just fine! (NOT the over two month one. It worked fine, the entire time.)


Good news, then! You can yank about 48 volts (90 if you get someone to call you) off of that copper line!

Disclaimer: probably illegal, not a good idea to do it, you didn't hear it from me


Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:21 pm
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Selador wrote:
Yeah.

All that is a convincing argument why, if I am concerned about big brother watching, and/or listening, I might as well just dig into my own pocket and pay for the latest greatest method for them to do so. (Because they will find some other way to listen and watch, anyway.)

Yeesh, when did the argument become backwards? Instead of demanding legislation to try to reel in their 'spying' on innocent US citizens... Now the argument is that you might as well pay out of your own pocket for the latest thing that gives them more bells and whistles, because they are doing it anyway... :frust: :cussing:


It's far, far easier to compromise a cell phone than the Amazon devices.
The tools are out there and most people aren't security conscious enough to know how to practice safe habits on their phones to protect themselves.


Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:35 pm
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debatem1 wrote:
I'm not arguing for the dot-- I don't own one-- but I am pointing out that if you're concerned about the dot for this reason it probably isn't going to make a big difference in your security posture against a really big skilled adversary.

lunacite wrote:
It's far, far easier to compromise a cell phone than the Amazon devices.
The tools are out there and most people aren't security conscious enough to know how to practice safe habits on their phones to protect themselves.


I don't need convincing. :bigsmile:

I don't have any use for one, anyway. So it'll never be a problem at my place.

I even got the stupidest smart phone I could find, because I just don't feel a need for all that stuff.

reginald_burrito wrote:
Selador wrote:
RENCORP wrote:
Meh.

Keeping my copper land line rotary dial phone.

At least I can tell it to fuck off without having a SWAT team taking me down for thought crime.


Where I live, in the last ten years, the power has been out maybe 60 or 70 times. Once, for over 2 months.

In every case except one, the copper landline still worked just fine! (NOT the over two month one. It worked fine, the entire time.)


Good news, then! You can yank about 48 volts (90 if you get someone to call you) off of that copper line!

Disclaimer: probably illegal, not a good idea to do it, you didn't hear it from me

Yep. I figured that out many years ago.

Not enough amperage to do anything with though.

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Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:41 pm
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