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It is currently Fri Apr 19, 2024 7:13 pm
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Armed Security Guards at Schools?
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Mediumrarechicken
Location: Puyallup Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 Posts: 9065
Real Name: Richard Fitzwelliner
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hartcreek wrote: When doing private security work I used to also carry a couple of these http://www.mystungun.com/-Fox-Labs-Law- ... _1392.htmlYou wife could do the same since she can not shoot. I carried them for dealing with a crowd when doing security at large events. Fox is top tier stuff,although I don't recommend fog in a school, especially if the person has a gun. The stream gets more on the face faster. Get an inert can to practice with, 2 cans is better yet so you can do a burst every couple of months and practice pulling it out and getting target
_________________ If she sits on your face and you can still hear, SHE'S NOT FAT.
I'm going to type out 3 paragraphs and wax eloquently about a similar story in my life. Pm me if you figured it out.
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Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:39 pm |
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 52040
Real Name: Steve
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glockgirl wrote: With the halls flooded with students and staff, fire alarm pulled, etc. could anyone not heavily trained and equally armed sight in and successfully target the shooter without incidental injury? I keep seeing similar arguments on Facebook. While we all certainly HOPE that the shooter could be taken down without any more innocent lives being lost, I don't think that's a realistic expectation in that type of scenario. I know it sounds heartless, but I'd rather see the shooter and a couple of innocent kids taken down in a hail of gunfire than the shooter allowed to continue shooting at will. The math just works.
_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:12 pm |
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jdhbulseye
Site Supporter
Location: Rochester, WA Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 Posts: 3761
Real Name: Mr. Idgaf
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MadPick wrote: glockgirl wrote: With the halls flooded with students and staff, fire alarm pulled, etc. could anyone not heavily trained and equally armed sight in and successfully target the shooter without incidental injury? I keep seeing similar arguments on Facebook. While we all certainly HOPE that the shooter could be taken down without any more innocent lives being lost, I don't think that's a realistic expectation in that type of scenario. I know it sounds heartless, but I'd rather see the shooter and a couple of innocent kids taken down in a hail of gunfire than the shooter allowed to continue shooting at will. The math just works. It's not heartless. It realism and pragmatism in the face of a seriously fucked up situation. Sometimes people are forced to make shitty decisions, in that example the least shitty decision is probably to at least try to put the piece of shit down before it kills more innocent life. Sent from Proxima Centauri B through the ether using FTP transmission technology, Honey Encryption, and Peanut Butter & Jelly sandwiches
_________________MadPick wrote: Without penetration data, the pics aren't of much use. - Spoiler: show
- "Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm -- but the harm does not interest them. Or they do not see it, or they justify it because they are absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves." – T.S. Eliot
"The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction." - St. George Tucker
A careful definition of words would destroy half the agenda of the political left and scrutinizing evidence would destroy the other half. - Thomas Sowell
"To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the innocent and law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless, and that the law will permit them to have only such rights and liberties as the lawless will allow...
For society does not control crime, ever, by forcing the law-abiding to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of criminals. Society controls crime by forcing the criminals to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of the law-abiding." - Jeff Snyder
Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal weapons. The possession of a good rifle, as well as the skill to use it well, truly makes a man the monarch of all he surveys. It realizes the ancient dream of the Jovian thunderbolt, and as such it is the embodiment of personal power. For this reason it exercises a curious influence over the minds of most men, and in its best examples it constitutes an object of affection unmatched by any other inanimate object.
Jeff Cooper 1997 The Art of the Rifle Page 1.
- Spoiler: show
- SUGGEST CASE BE SUBMITTED ON APPELLANT'S BRIEF. UNABLE TO OBTAIN ANY MONEY FROM CLIENTS TO BE PRESENT & ARGUE BRIEF.
The defense attorney's telegram to the clerk of the Supreme Court, March 29, 1939, in re United States. v. Miller.
You don't need to go to Law School to understand the constitutional implications of that.
“You can’t cut the throat of every cocksucker whose character it would improve.” - Spoiler: show
cityslicker wrote: I don't want to be told that I can't remove the tree by some tree-hugging pole smoker from the eat-a-dick foundation/Olympia/King County.
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Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:28 pm |
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NWGunner
Site Supporter
Location: South Seattle Joined: Thu May 2, 2013 Posts: 12475
Real Name: Steve
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Once you can't eliminate loss, you have to mitigate loss.
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Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:34 pm |
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Alpine
Site Supporter
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 Posts: 7649
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MadPick wrote: glockgirl wrote: With the halls flooded with students and staff, fire alarm pulled, etc. could anyone not heavily trained and equally armed sight in and successfully target the shooter without incidental injury? I keep seeing similar arguments on Facebook. While we all certainly HOPE that the shooter could be taken down without any more innocent lives being lost, I don't think that's a realistic expectation in that type of scenario. I know it sounds heartless, but I'd rather see the shooter and a couple of innocent kids taken down in a hail of gunfire than the shooter allowed to continue shooting at will. The math just works. After 911 it was discovered that the order had been given to shoot down any unresponsive planes off course. It would have been terrible but it also could have saved lives. Thankfully it wasn't necessary. I disagree about civilians being armed and contributing to crossfire and harming the innocent. The Clackamas mall shooting proved that civvies know when to hold their fire and the gunman saw the armed citizen and decided to off himself right then. In fact, a common theme among shooters is when they encounter armed resistance close to themselves they kill themselves.
_________________If you vote for Biden you are voting to be murdered when he sends Beto to come take your "semi automatic assault weapon" (any semi auto). If you have family or friends voting for Biden show them this and ask if they are willing to vote for your murder or maybe even their own if they are gun owners or live with any. https://nypost.com/2020/03/03/joe-biden ... n-control/Quote: “I want to make something clear, I’m going to guarantee you this is not the last you’ve seen of him (Beto),” Biden said Monday evening during a campaign rally in Dallas. “You’re (Beto) going to take care of the gun problem with me. You’re (Beto) going to be the one who leads this effort.” https://www.newsweek.com/beto-orourke-g ... ns-1465738Quote: [Beto O'Rourke Suggests Police Would 'Visit' Homes To Implement Proposed Assault Weapons Ban] "In that case, I think that there would be a visit by law enforcement to recover that firearm... ..."If someone does not turn in an AR-15 or an AK-47, one of these weapons of war...then that weapon will be taken from them"
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Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:35 pm |
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Guntrader
In Memoriam
Location: Mukilteoish Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 Posts: 11595
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Alpine wrote: After 911 it was discovered that the order had been given to shoot down any unresponsive planes off course. It would have been terrible but it also could have saved lives. Thankfully it wasn't necessary.
Shortly after 9-11 I recall several people on the news talking about how safe they felt when their jetliner was escorted and forced to land by US fighter jets after an altercation on board. They must use the safe type of air to air missiles these days.
_________________ NRA Endowment Member. How did they know my member was well endowed?
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Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:43 pm |
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jukk0u
Site Supporter
Location: Lynnwood and at large Joined: Wed May 1, 2013 Posts: 21270
Real Name: Vick Lagina
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I recall the Navy escorts of the Ferrie boats and wondering how accurate those MG's would be from a floating platform and hoping whomever they may eventually be aimed at wasn't standing near me!
_________________ “Finding ‘common ground’ with the thinking of evil men is a fool’s errand” ~ Herschel Smith
"The said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." ~ Samuel Adams
“A return to First Principles in a Republic is sometimes caused by simple virtues of a single man. His good example has such an influence that the good men strive to imitate him, and the wicked are ashamed to lead a life so contrary to his example. Before all else, be armed!” ~ Niccolo Machiavelli
Láodòng zhèng zhūwèi zìyóu
FJB
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Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:06 am |
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AR15L
Site Supporter
Location: Nampa, Idaho Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 Posts: 19463
Real Name: Rick
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Let's go back to Blue Thunder (1983). Quote: In 1983, Frank Murphy (Roy Scheider) is a Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) air support division officer and troubled Vietnam War veteran with post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). His newly assigned field partner is Richard Lymangood (Daniel Stern). The two patrol Los Angeles at night and give assistance to police forces on the ground.
Murphy is instructed to attend a sunrise demonstration in the Mojave Desert at "Pinkville" (34 54'41.46" N, 118 13'11.99" W), and is selected to pilot the world's most advanced helicopter, originally conceived in name as The Special, and hung with the nickname, "Blue Thunder", it is one of two prototypes of a military-style combat aircraft intended for police use in surveillance and against possible large-scale civic disobedience during the 1984 Olympic venue. With powerful armament, and other accouterments such as infrared scanners, powerful microphones and cameras, built-in mobile telephone, computer and modem, and a U-Matic VCR, Blue Thunder appears to be a formidable tool in the war on crime. Murphy notes wryly that with enough of these helicopters "you could run the whole damn country." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_ThunderI can't find the quote I wanted but somewhere in the movie someone says, "yeah, a few civilians will be killed but in order to get all the bad guys, it'll be worth it." That's the best I can remember that line or something like it.
_________________ ‘What’s the point of being a citizen if an illegal gets all the benefits’
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Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:38 am |
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dennydp
Site Supporter
Location: Bremerton Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 Posts: 1618
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Teachers should at the very least be trained and have tasers
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
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Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:03 am |
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Mediumrarechicken
Location: Puyallup Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 Posts: 9065
Real Name: Richard Fitzwelliner
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dennydp wrote: Teachers should at the very least be trained and have tasers
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk Tasers, really? That's just about the worst thing to have. Dude is wearing a thick jacket so it doesn't make skin contact, youre dead. One dart sticks in the person, youre dead, it doesnt affect them, youre dead. The guy has.his finger on the trigger and you actually give him a ride, he tenses up and shoots you or someone else. Just no
_________________ If she sits on your face and you can still hear, SHE'S NOT FAT.
I'm going to type out 3 paragraphs and wax eloquently about a similar story in my life. Pm me if you figured it out.
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Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:17 am |
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PMB
In Memoriam
Joined: Wed Mar 6, 2013 Posts: 12018
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Mediumrarechicken wrote: dennydp wrote: Teachers should at the very least be trained and have tasers
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk Tasers, really? That's just about the worst thing to have. Dude is wearing a thick jacket so it doesn't make skin contact, youre dead. One dart sticks in the person, youre dead, it doesnt affect them, youre dead. The guy has.his finger on the trigger and you actually give him a ride, he tenses up and shoots you or someone else. Just no I'm going with my earlier position - Doing something is better than nothing in this case. I'd rather have my children's teachers armed with a taser than nothing at all. (I homeschool, but that's beside the point.) I might have been a little more cautious with my sarcasm in high school had my ignorant physics teacher had a taser on display on his desk.
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Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:21 am |
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Alpine
Site Supporter
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 Posts: 7649
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Doing a little but not enough is worse than nothing because then the antis will claim defensive weapons won't work. Either we arm up the schools sufficient to stop the threat or we don't arm them at all, the in-between is dangerous and risks more attacks on 2A.
_________________If you vote for Biden you are voting to be murdered when he sends Beto to come take your "semi automatic assault weapon" (any semi auto). If you have family or friends voting for Biden show them this and ask if they are willing to vote for your murder or maybe even their own if they are gun owners or live with any. https://nypost.com/2020/03/03/joe-biden ... n-control/Quote: “I want to make something clear, I’m going to guarantee you this is not the last you’ve seen of him (Beto),” Biden said Monday evening during a campaign rally in Dallas. “You’re (Beto) going to take care of the gun problem with me. You’re (Beto) going to be the one who leads this effort.” https://www.newsweek.com/beto-orourke-g ... ns-1465738Quote: [Beto O'Rourke Suggests Police Would 'Visit' Homes To Implement Proposed Assault Weapons Ban] "In that case, I think that there would be a visit by law enforcement to recover that firearm... ..."If someone does not turn in an AR-15 or an AK-47, one of these weapons of war...then that weapon will be taken from them"
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Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:30 am |
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Mediumrarechicken
Location: Puyallup Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 Posts: 9065
Real Name: Richard Fitzwelliner
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PMB wrote: Mediumrarechicken wrote: dennydp wrote: Teachers should at the very least be trained and have tasers
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk Tasers, really? That's just about the worst thing to have. Dude is wearing a thick jacket so it doesn't make skin contact, youre dead. One dart sticks in the person, youre dead, it doesnt affect them, youre dead. The guy has.his finger on the trigger and you actually give him a ride, he tenses up and shoots you or someone else. Just no I'm going with my earlier position - Doing something is better than nothing in this case. I'd rather have my children's teachers armed with a taser than nothing at all. (I homeschool, but that's beside the point.) I might have been a little more cautious with my sarcasm in high school had my ignorant physics teacher had a taser on display on his desk. Schools lack the cover to sneak close enough to get to the person with the gun, the guy turns around and you are dead. You really are better off locking your door, and shoving desks into the door and using your body to hold the desks to the door in case the guy tries to shoot the lock. Basically a taser is a suicide mission. Why die when you can still somewhat protect your class.
_________________ If she sits on your face and you can still hear, SHE'S NOT FAT.
I'm going to type out 3 paragraphs and wax eloquently about a similar story in my life. Pm me if you figured it out.
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Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:32 am |
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SporkBoy
Site Supporter
Location: Deckerville Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 Posts: 2944
Real Name: Rob
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Treating symptoms instead of causes is frustrating and ineffectual except in a very limited sense and then only short term.
Turning schools into prisons (hardened facilities with armed staff) creates more problems than one intends to solve.
_________________ “The Democrats are playing you for a political chump and if you vote for them, not only are you a chump, you are a traitor to your race.”-Malcolm X
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Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:11 am |
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jdhbulseye
Site Supporter
Location: Rochester, WA Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 Posts: 3761
Real Name: Mr. Idgaf
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SporkBoy wrote: Turning schools into prisons (hardened facilities with armed staff) creates more problems than one intends to solve. Such as?
_________________MadPick wrote: Without penetration data, the pics aren't of much use. - Spoiler: show
- "Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm -- but the harm does not interest them. Or they do not see it, or they justify it because they are absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves." – T.S. Eliot
"The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction." - St. George Tucker
A careful definition of words would destroy half the agenda of the political left and scrutinizing evidence would destroy the other half. - Thomas Sowell
"To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the innocent and law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless, and that the law will permit them to have only such rights and liberties as the lawless will allow...
For society does not control crime, ever, by forcing the law-abiding to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of criminals. Society controls crime by forcing the criminals to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of the law-abiding." - Jeff Snyder
Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal weapons. The possession of a good rifle, as well as the skill to use it well, truly makes a man the monarch of all he surveys. It realizes the ancient dream of the Jovian thunderbolt, and as such it is the embodiment of personal power. For this reason it exercises a curious influence over the minds of most men, and in its best examples it constitutes an object of affection unmatched by any other inanimate object.
Jeff Cooper 1997 The Art of the Rifle Page 1.
- Spoiler: show
- SUGGEST CASE BE SUBMITTED ON APPELLANT'S BRIEF. UNABLE TO OBTAIN ANY MONEY FROM CLIENTS TO BE PRESENT & ARGUE BRIEF.
The defense attorney's telegram to the clerk of the Supreme Court, March 29, 1939, in re United States. v. Miller.
You don't need to go to Law School to understand the constitutional implications of that.
“You can’t cut the throat of every cocksucker whose character it would improve.” - Spoiler: show
cityslicker wrote: I don't want to be told that I can't remove the tree by some tree-hugging pole smoker from the eat-a-dick foundation/Olympia/King County.
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Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:26 am |
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