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 FCC votes to repeal Obama-era net neutrality regulations 
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And another thought that just came to mind.... this also opens the door for ISPs to start charging PER DEVICE. Think about it... how many millions of cell phones/tablets/game consoles are hooked up to the web over the ISPs lines where there is no way for them to charge 'fair service value'??? The web has basically created the market for all these 'must have/can't live without' devices by supplying what is essentially 'free' internet data... What kind of pricing models do you think the ISPs are dreaming up now that the doors are wide open? All cell data is at risk of this too once someone figures out a model that doesn't piss the customer base off (a bit more difficult since tiered pricing already exits). Some may say this is tinfoil hat territory, but I think its much more likely to happen than any of the other theories out there.

I have yet to hear ONE good reason for the deregulation, other than the ISPs saying 'it will be better for consumers and the economy'....

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Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:14 pm
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JohnMBrowning wrote:

Think back in the not to distant past about what happened after the banking deregulation of the '90s.... What happened there? I seem to recall creditcard rates of 6-8-10% with no fees --- haven't seen that forever - they quickly jacked rates up to 18+% - and savings interest rates basically dropped to zero -- that was good for the consumers.... right? And the mortgage mess that followed after the deregulation.... didn't the banks say "Don't worry, WE will regulate OURSELVES"? Yeah, that worked out well for us as a whole, didn't it?


Credit card rates were high long before bank deregulation. Interest rates as whole, also.

And the housing bubble mess, also not caused by bank deregulation. Neither are good examples.

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Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:22 pm
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JohnMBrowning wrote:
And another thought that just came to mind.... this also opens the door for ISPs to start charging PER DEVICE. Think about it... how many millions of cell phones/tablets/game consoles are hooked up to the web over the ISPs lines where there is no way for them to charge 'fair service value'??? The web has basically created the market for all these 'must have/can't live without' devices by supplying what is essentially 'free' internet data... What kind of pricing models do you think the ISPs are dreaming up now that the doors are wide open? All cell data is at risk of this too once someone figures out a model that doesn't piss the customer base off (a bit more difficult since tiered pricing already exits). Some may say this is tinfoil hat territory, but I think its much more likely to happen than any of the other theories out there.

I have yet to hear ONE good reason for the deregulation, other than the ISPs saying 'it will be better for consumers and the economy'....


That's exactly it. People just making up worries.

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Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:23 pm
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It's called "Free Market." None of the doom and gloom about reducing government will occur.

Profits, competition, and innovation will prevail. It always had and always will. It's the invisible hand and a law that cannot be broken absent big government intervention. Rarely is big government helpful.

Pick and industry and we could probably show how big government interference has been more expensive for consumers, and not been overall helpful whereas the free-market could have simply self corrected.

Guns, cars, healthcare, communications, etc. almost universally are better when government gets out of the way. Unless wars need to be fought, or people need protecting, the government really has no business in doing anything much.

Take our favorite topic - guns. Imagine for a minute nearly every gun regulation lifted. Innovation would soar. You'd see amazing creativity. Costs would plummet. No more transfer fees, no more hidden design and FFL taxes, no more special licensing to sell or buy guns, and so forth.

As it relates to "entertainment," the government didn't create movies, music, or the internet (in spite of Al Gore's belief). It has done little/nothing to improve upon these other than some censorship for safety/health/welfare. None of the programming you likely watch is made or distributed by government. It's all private entrepreneurship driven by innovation, profits, and free market ideals.

Image

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Last edited by leadcounsel on Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:30 pm
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Without fail, every single person I've spoken to about this who "supports net neutrality" cannot actually tell me what was in Title 2. They have soundbytes they are repaying but no knowledge of its provisions. The ignorance is astounding.

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Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:32 pm
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Pablo wrote:
JohnMBrowning wrote:

Think back in the not to distant past about what happened after the banking deregulation of the '90s.... What happened there? I seem to recall creditcard rates of 6-8-10% with no fees --- haven't seen that forever - they quickly jacked rates up to 18+% - and savings interest rates basically dropped to zero -- that was good for the consumers.... right? And the mortgage mess that followed after the deregulation.... didn't the banks say "Don't worry, WE will regulate OURSELVES"? Yeah, that worked out well for us as a whole, didn't it?


Credit card rates were high long before bank deregulation. Interest rates as whole, also.

And the housing bubble mess, also not caused by bank deregulation. Neither are good examples.


Really? You must have had pretty bad credit back then... I remember them beign MUCH lower....

And you don't think that deregulation didn't influence the housing bubble???? Come on now.... prior to dereg you'd be hard pressed to get into a house without a MINIMUM 10% down (more likely 20%) --- after dereg we start seeing 'creative products' like variable rates/no money down/interest only loans/lower interest for xxx years (for house flippers) --- kinda goes completely against any 'good banking practices' mindset. Get into a house with no real skin in the game - leveraged to the hilt - sign offs for mortgages WELL beyond appraised values.... that didn't add to the bubble???? I know there's alot more to it, but you have to ask yourself --- would the bubble have happened or been as huge as it was had the regs still been in place? I would say that it would have been shrunk much earlier had there been some 'common sense' oversight.

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Of the ten voices I hear in my head, only three keep telling me NOT to shoot....
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Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:39 pm
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JohnMBrowning wrote:

Really? You must have had pretty bad credit back then... I remember them beign MUCH lower....

And you don't think that deregulation didn't influence the housing bubble???? Come on now.... prior to dereg you'd be hard pressed to get into a house without a MINIMUM 10% down (more likely 20%) --- after dereg we start seeing 'creative products' like variable rates/no money down/interest only loans/lower interest for xxx years (for house flippers) --- kinda goes completely against any 'good banking practices' mindset. Get into a house with no real skin in the game - leveraged to the hilt - sign offs for mortgages WELL beyond appraised values.... that didn't add to the bubble???? I know there's alot more to it, but you have to ask yourself --- would the bubble have happened or been as huge as it was had the regs still been in place? I would say that it would have been shrunk much earlier had there been some 'common sense' oversight.


Never needed card interest, but yeah in the 1970's and 80's over 20%, upper teens for sure. NEVER have had overall interest rate like this in my 59.5 year lifetime. Nothing to do with bank regs.

There was 5% down, then PMI before the most current bank regs, but the build of the bubble could have happened or not without the bank regulation - started when the gov mandated all sorts of people should own homes.......easy credit. Pushed by the government - then the big boys knew the paper was toxic, new there would be defaults and foreclosures and started bundling with medium and good loans, frankly again could still happen today. And the government again saw this happening through FNMA and Freddie mac, etc , nothing hidden. Lots of reasons, but the root cause was not lack of regulation.

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Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:12 pm
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Pablo wrote:

There was 5% down, then PMI before the most current bank regs, but the build of the bubble could have happened or not without the bank regulation - started when the gov mandated all sorts of people should own homes.......easy credit. Pushed by the government - then the big boys knew the paper was toxic, new there would be defaults and foreclosures and started bundling with medium and good loans, frankly again could still happen today. And the government again saw this happening through FNMA and Freddie mac, etc , nothing hidden. Lots of reasons, but the root cause was not lack of regulation.


The banks were required to give loans to deadbeats due to OVER regulation.

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Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:19 pm
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Guntrader wrote:
Pablo wrote:

There was 5% down, then PMI before the most current bank regs, but the build of the bubble could have happened or not without the bank regulation - started when the gov mandated all sorts of people should own homes.......easy credit. Pushed by the government - then the big boys knew the paper was toxic, new there would be defaults and foreclosures and started bundling with medium and good loans, frankly again could still happen today. And the government again saw this happening through FNMA and Freddie mac, etc , nothing hidden. Lots of reasons, but the root cause was not lack of regulation.


The banks were required to give loans to deadbeats due to OVER regulation.


Yep......."gov mandated all sorts of people should own homes.......easy credit. "

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Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:22 pm
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So amongst all this terrible banking deregulation, I have three credit cards with a <10% interest rate, a 4.5% home loan, a 3.5% car loan, and a 1% car loan. Seems like the competition deregulation has opened up is a good thing to me!


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Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:07 pm
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I have 4 cards at rates higher than 10%.
But haven't payed a penny in interest or annual fees in at least 12 years.
Pay them off every month, they won't give me a lower rate.

As far as net neutrality goes............. since about noon today Fox News on Comcast cuts out every 5 seconds, pixelated.

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Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:14 pm
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Spend 5 minutes and educate yourself.

Kimmel is a total liberal MORON with his totally emotional garbage.

Now listen to the FCC commissioner.

Oh, and let's not ignore the name calling and hysteria and bomb threats liberals throw out when they lose. :crybaby: :blackcloud1:

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/12/15/n ... t-pai-feud

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Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:23 pm
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JMB, Forced fairness by a government is never a good thing.

Me, I'm not fully entangled in the interweb thing. Hell, I was forced kicking and screaming into FB due to my need for info on Matches.

If my computer orders me parts so I don't have to phone them in and my phone does text and the phone part I'm good.

Comcast changes my package so much when I watch...I don't know if I still get Comedy Central or Discovery until I hit the button. If it isn't there it isn't. I buy the basic package. Got plenty of multilingual channels ill never watch though....Kinda like my Obarry Health Care charging me for pre-natal care. Government controlled SMH....I don't need all that premium channel shit don't need prenatal care either.....

The Computer needy generation "Needs" fast things...games, porn etc. Shit I'm hearing you can get HBO on your phone now. Why would a person need such a thing. I go to dinner with the GF and we are amazed at how many people are disconnected with their dates. Why go to a restaurant with someone and then facebook.

Last year at Christmas I went to the mall @ tacoma to get some gifts....nearly 100% of people walking through there were either on the fone looking at the fone or had it out in front of them at the ready.....

Sorry man, I dont get it.

Don't get me wrong...I admit its convenient but I could/would do fine with less. They want to charge more....Ill cancell.

Any time the government wants to fix or control something?

My opinion....isnt good and has never yet worked to the benefit of the citizens.

Name one program that's working....War on Drugs, Homeless housing, CPS, Traffic Congestion, RTA, Schools hell the list is loooooooong and the failure rate is near 100% littered with corruption waste and complete failures.

My trust in them "helping"? Well, their track record should show you that my lack of trust is valid and it isn't 100% because Barry signed off on it...although its a good indicator of a bad deal.

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Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:39 pm
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WaJim wrote:
JMB, Forced fairness by a government is never a good thing.

Me, I'm not fully entangled in the interweb thing. Hell, I was forced kicking and screaming into FB due to my need for info on Matches.

If my computer orders me parts so I don't have to phone them in and my phone does text and the phone part I'm good.

Comcast changes my package so much when I watch...I don't know if I still get Comedy Central or Discovery until I hit the button. If it isn't there it isn't. I buy the basic package. Got plenty of multilingual channels ill never watch though....Kinda like my Obarry Health Care charging me for pre-natal care. Government controlled SMH....I don't need all that premium channel shit don't need prenatal care either.....

The Computer needy generation "Needs" fast things...games, porn etc. Shit I'm hearing you can get HBO on your phone now. Why would a person need such a thing. I go to dinner with the GF and we are amazed at how many people are disconnected with their dates. Why go to a restaurant with someone and then facebook.

Last year at Christmas I went to the mall @ tacoma to get some gifts....nearly 100% of people walking through there were either on the fone looking at the fone or had it out in front of them at the ready.....

Sorry man, I dont get it.

Don't get me wrong...I admit its convenient but I could/would do fine with less. They want to charge more....Ill cancell.

Any time the government wants to fix or control something?

My opinion....isnt good and has never yet worked to the benefit of the citizens.

Name one program that's working....War on Drugs, Homeless housing, CPS, Traffic Congestion, RTA, Schools hell the list is loooooooong and the failure rate is near 100% littered with corruption waste and complete failures.

My trust in them "helping"? Well, their track record should show you that my lack of trust is valid and it isn't 100% because Barry signed off on it...although its a good indicator of a bad deal.


Mic-drop. WaJim for the win.

I like how you point out that the list of government failures is nearly 100% (and by failures I'll include successes but at large over-runs in price or otherwise unlimited budgets).
DoD (failed wars, slow wins, etc.)
VA
FBI
CIA
Post Office
Public schools, colleges, universities
Healthcare/Insurance
Debt, national and federal
Immigration
Roads/bridges/infrastructure
Criminal justice, crime/punishment/prisons
Police and law enforcement
Politicians

Point to any real big wins in these areas of government control, please... I'm just not seeing it. :popcorn:

I see massive corruption, failure, budget over-runs, waste, fraud, abuse, favoritism, power structure, false promises/no delivery, etc.

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Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:22 pm
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Duke EB wrote:
sreyemj wrote:
I don't know why so many small government people think this issue needs to be addressed by government regulation, especially now that there is intense competition among service providers.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/fcc-votes-to-make-internet-harder-for-poor-people-to-access
"Over 56 million American households have no choice in internet service providers in their area, leaving them potentially tethered to an artificially slow internet under the new rules."


With 125.82 million household in the US this means that roughly 45% of American households have only one option for internet.

Seems a but high to me.


Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:14 pm
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