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Page 6 of 9 |
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Update: Peruta cert DENIED, 25% of US disarmed
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Site Supporter   Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 Posts: 7649 
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solyanik wrote: TechnoWeenie wrote: solyanik wrote: Where does the idea that Hillary win would be the end of 2a coming from? Hillary. Do you believe everything that Hillary says? Given her lobbying and involvement on the previous AWB, which became law, and private, leaked comments about overturning Heller and the public comments about Australia we have some unique context here: -She has told wealthy donors and close friends in private she wants to ban guns -She has said consistently, in public, that she wants to ban guns Why shouldn't we believe her on this specific issue? I mean, if she came out and said that she didn't want to overturn Heller or didn't want to ban guns then maybe there'd be some wiggle room or room for debate but there isn't even that. So far she hasn't even changed her position on this. _________________ If you vote for Biden you are voting to be murdered when he sends Beto to come take your "semi automatic assault weapon" (any semi auto). If you have family or friends voting for Biden show them this and ask if they are willing to vote for your murder or maybe even their own if they are gun owners or live with any. https://nypost.com/2020/03/03/joe-biden ... n-control/ Quote: “I want to make something clear, I’m going to guarantee you this is not the last you’ve seen of him (Beto),” Biden said Monday evening during a campaign rally in Dallas. “You’re (Beto) going to take care of the gun problem with me. You’re (Beto) going to be the one who leads this effort.” https://www.newsweek.com/beto-orourke-g ... ns-1465738 Quote: [Beto O'Rourke Suggests Police Would 'Visit' Homes To Implement Proposed Assault Weapons Ban] "In that case, I think that there would be a visit by law enforcement to recover that firearm... ..."If someone does not turn in an AR-15 or an AK-47, one of these weapons of war...then that weapon will be taken from them" |
| Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:59 pm |
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Site Supporter Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 Posts: 7649
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solyanik wrote: Alpine wrote: solyanik wrote: Dude, if the point is to exercise in sophistry, there's no point of continuing the discussion. I didn't go to Catholic school, this is boring. You know exactly what I mean, and it was you who claimed that a tiny minority forced its will on an overwhelming majority, whereas at no time since late 90s was the minority tiny, or majority overwhelming. Yeah, I would be interested in looking at the data where firearms are not becoming less popular, All data I am seeing show dropping ownership rates - and that the majority of volume increase going to the same buyers. This is what I largely see at my store, too, though of course it is not a statistically significant sample. "Blah blah blah Constitution blah blah freedom" approach worked fantastically well for the gun crowd in the last couple of decades. Especially in California, and BTW, WA will be JUST LIKE California in 20 years, given the demographic trends. What did Einstein say about using the same approach twice and expecting different results? Lets look at the numbers. http://www.gallup.com/poll/117328/marriage.aspx 2005 (when the first popularly-voted ban was overturned by a court): 37% vs 59% (that's a landslide poll) Support for legal gay marriage didn't even break 50% until many of the bans had already been thrown out by the courts! This is not sophistry or a semantics game, this is hard math. I didn't go to Catholic school so not sure where that comment came from. I see WA turning out a little bit differently than CA for one main reason, a selfish-libertarian streak that runs through Washingtonian liberalism. (ie: people want legal weed, gay marriage and have generally opposed banning things or being told they aren't allowed to do/have things which I am counting on to help in the coming AWB fight). Now, what is the polling on concealed carry? 2-1. http://crimeresearch.org/2016/06/new-ga ... -us-safer/ I'm trying to find a CA-specific poll on it. So if 20% margin is overwhelming, then Hillary has an overwhelming support right now, and Trump supporters are "tiny minority" :-). The reason I am saying that WA is going to be just like CA is because large numbers of CA people are migrating into WA right now, especially in Seattle area. It's a demographic trend, and it results in various other trends, from real estate prices to, unfortunately, attitudes to guns. Anyway, I would really like to see a plan for the gun community that is not "we will always elect republicans to high offices", because it's not going to work. At the very, very minimum and very immediately it has not worked in WA for the last 15 years. Why does the WA GOP have control of the State Senate and almost control of the State House? By the way, Trump has closed to within 2 points of Clinton today despite everything... http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... ouse_watch Now wait until the October surprises. _________________ If you vote for Biden you are voting to be murdered when he sends Beto to come take your "semi automatic assault weapon" (any semi auto). If you have family or friends voting for Biden show them this and ask if they are willing to vote for your murder or maybe even their own if they are gun owners or live with any. https://nypost.com/2020/03/03/joe-biden ... n-control/ Quote: “I want to make something clear, I’m going to guarantee you this is not the last you’ve seen of him (Beto),” Biden said Monday evening during a campaign rally in Dallas. “You’re (Beto) going to take care of the gun problem with me. You’re (Beto) going to be the one who leads this effort.” https://www.newsweek.com/beto-orourke-g ... ns-1465738 Quote: [Beto O'Rourke Suggests Police Would 'Visit' Homes To Implement Proposed Assault Weapons Ban] "In that case, I think that there would be a visit by law enforcement to recover that firearm... ..."If someone does not turn in an AR-15 or an AK-47, one of these weapons of war...then that weapon will be taken from them" Last edited by Alpine on Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total. |
| Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:01 pm |
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Site Supporter / FFL Dealer  Location: Seattle Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 Posts: 3420
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The statement I am disputing is not "Does Hillary want to ban guns". The statement I am disputing is "If Hillary gets elected, it's the end of Second Amendment". Which is more about "can Hillary ban guns?"
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| Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:02 pm |
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Site Supporter / FFL Dealer Location: Seattle Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 Posts: 3420
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Alpine wrote: Why does the WA GOP have control of the State Senate and almost control of the State House? Because WA is currently split 50:50, population-wise, between rural and urban areas. However, urban areas are growing very rapidly, and rural areas - not so much (and are probably shrinking, looking at the real estate price maps). How do you think urban areas are growing? Yes, transplants from CA. Last edited by solyanik on Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total. |
| Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:04 pm |
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Site Supporter Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 Posts: 7649
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solyanik wrote: The statement I am disputing is not "Does Hillary want to ban guns". The statement I am disputing is "If Hillary gets elected, it's the end of Second Amendment". Which is more about "can Hillary ban guns?" She can do it through reversing Heller and then having her minions in the states start a flood of initiatives/referenda and then eventually getting a demo Congress to ram it through nationally even if it costs them an election cycle or several like the ACA did. _________________ If you vote for Biden you are voting to be murdered when he sends Beto to come take your "semi automatic assault weapon" (any semi auto). If you have family or friends voting for Biden show them this and ask if they are willing to vote for your murder or maybe even their own if they are gun owners or live with any. https://nypost.com/2020/03/03/joe-biden ... n-control/ Quote: “I want to make something clear, I’m going to guarantee you this is not the last you’ve seen of him (Beto),” Biden said Monday evening during a campaign rally in Dallas. “You’re (Beto) going to take care of the gun problem with me. You’re (Beto) going to be the one who leads this effort.” https://www.newsweek.com/beto-orourke-g ... ns-1465738 Quote: [Beto O'Rourke Suggests Police Would 'Visit' Homes To Implement Proposed Assault Weapons Ban] "In that case, I think that there would be a visit by law enforcement to recover that firearm... ..."If someone does not turn in an AR-15 or an AK-47, one of these weapons of war...then that weapon will be taken from them" |
| Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:04 pm |
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Site Supporter / FFL Dealer Location: Seattle Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 Posts: 3420
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Alpine wrote: solyanik wrote: The statement I am disputing is not "Does Hillary want to ban guns". The statement I am disputing is "If Hillary gets elected, it's the end of Second Amendment". Which is more about "can Hillary ban guns?" She can do it through reversing Heller and then having her minions in the states start a flood of initiatives/referenda and then eventually getting a demo Congress to ram it through nationally even if it costs them an election cycle or several like the ACA did. And why would a politician do something that costs them power? |
| Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:05 pm |
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 Site Supporter  Location: Nova Laboratories Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 Posts: 18454 Real Name: Johnny 5
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solyanik wrote: TechnoWeenie wrote: solyanik wrote: Where does the idea that Hillary win would be the end of 2a coming from? Hillary. Do you believe everything that Hillary says? A presidential candidate says that she wants to end private gun ownership. You question 'Who said that?' I respond with 'She did' and you respond with 'Well, what does it matter?'   _________________ NO DISASSEMBLE! Thomas Paine wrote: "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." |
| Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:13 pm |
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Site Supporter Location: Nova Laboratories Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 Posts: 18454 Real Name: Johnny 5
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solyanik wrote: The statement I am disputing is not "Does Hillary want to ban guns". The statement I am disputing is "If Hillary gets elected, it's the end of Second Amendment". Which is more about "can Hillary ban guns?" Obama can't tell border patrol to stop doing their job... but... BATFE can't make law, but...... The right to keep and bear arms cant be infringed, but..... You can't force people to pay for health insurance they don't want and/or can't afford, but.... 594 can't succeed because it's illegal, but..... Hillary can't ban guns, but..... _________________ NO DISASSEMBLE! Thomas Paine wrote: "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." |
| Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:16 pm |
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Site Supporter Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 Posts: 7649
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solyanik wrote: Alpine wrote: solyanik wrote: The statement I am disputing is not "Does Hillary want to ban guns". The statement I am disputing is "If Hillary gets elected, it's the end of Second Amendment". Which is more about "can Hillary ban guns?" She can do it through reversing Heller and then having her minions in the states start a flood of initiatives/referenda and then eventually getting a demo Congress to ram it through nationally even if it costs them an election cycle or several like the ACA did. And why would a politician do something that costs them power? Why did they do it for the ACA? They KNEW it would cost them Congress. Several reps and sens went to Obama and explained this and they were told to take "one for the team." _________________ If you vote for Biden you are voting to be murdered when he sends Beto to come take your "semi automatic assault weapon" (any semi auto). If you have family or friends voting for Biden show them this and ask if they are willing to vote for your murder or maybe even their own if they are gun owners or live with any. https://nypost.com/2020/03/03/joe-biden ... n-control/ Quote: “I want to make something clear, I’m going to guarantee you this is not the last you’ve seen of him (Beto),” Biden said Monday evening during a campaign rally in Dallas. “You’re (Beto) going to take care of the gun problem with me. You’re (Beto) going to be the one who leads this effort.” https://www.newsweek.com/beto-orourke-g ... ns-1465738 Quote: [Beto O'Rourke Suggests Police Would 'Visit' Homes To Implement Proposed Assault Weapons Ban] "In that case, I think that there would be a visit by law enforcement to recover that firearm... ..."If someone does not turn in an AR-15 or an AK-47, one of these weapons of war...then that weapon will be taken from them" |
| Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:22 pm |
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Site Supporter  Location: SUNNY SW WA COAST NEAR ILWACO Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 Posts: 1134 Real Name: Ratchet Thunderfuk
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Arguing about who to vote for, for POTUS, on a small forum like this is a waste of time.
Like I said earlier in many post, as far as POTUS, hope for the best, prepare for the worst. The only way to mitigate hillary if she is elected, is to shore up the State House and Senate. Wa. State House is split 50 50 right now I believe, with a few rural Dems that are 2A friendly. Also to help at a national level if and where possible in any state where there is a close race for a key 2A Senator or Congressperson. _________________ Si vis pacem fac bellum |
| Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:37 pm |
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Site Supporter  Location: East of Lake Washington Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 Posts: 1864
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TechnoWeenie wrote: solyanik wrote: TechnoWeenie wrote: solyanik wrote: Where does the idea that Hillary win would be the end of 2a coming from? Hillary. Do you believe everything that Hillary says? A presidential candidate says that she wants to end private gun ownership. You question 'Who said that?' I respond with 'She did' and you respond with 'Well, what does it matter?' Uh, that's a big CHECKMATE, that's what that is. |
| Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:52 pm |
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Site Supporter Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 Posts: 7649
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It is interesting that an open carry lawsuit is now pressing forward in CA and citing this decision in Peruta as grounds that the state MUST allow SOME kind of carry that isn't restricted by the whim of officials. Note that the 2nd Peruta decision specifically left this door open, most likely because the anti-gun hoplophobes on the court would love to see open carry as the only allowed carry in CA due to their expectations of social stigmatization in that hostile environment.
_________________ If you vote for Biden you are voting to be murdered when he sends Beto to come take your "semi automatic assault weapon" (any semi auto). If you have family or friends voting for Biden show them this and ask if they are willing to vote for your murder or maybe even their own if they are gun owners or live with any. https://nypost.com/2020/03/03/joe-biden ... n-control/ Quote: “I want to make something clear, I’m going to guarantee you this is not the last you’ve seen of him (Beto),” Biden said Monday evening during a campaign rally in Dallas. “You’re (Beto) going to take care of the gun problem with me. You’re (Beto) going to be the one who leads this effort.” https://www.newsweek.com/beto-orourke-g ... ns-1465738 Quote: [Beto O'Rourke Suggests Police Would 'Visit' Homes To Implement Proposed Assault Weapons Ban] "In that case, I think that there would be a visit by law enforcement to recover that firearm... ..."If someone does not turn in an AR-15 or an AK-47, one of these weapons of war...then that weapon will be taken from them" |
| Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:58 pm |
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Site Supporter / FFL Dealer Location: Seattle Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 Posts: 3420
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Alpine wrote: solyanik wrote: Alpine wrote: solyanik wrote: The statement I am disputing is not "Does Hillary want to ban guns". The statement I am disputing is "If Hillary gets elected, it's the end of Second Amendment". Which is more about "can Hillary ban guns?" She can do it through reversing Heller and then having her minions in the states start a flood of initiatives/referenda and then eventually getting a demo Congress to ram it through nationally even if it costs them an election cycle or several like the ACA did. And why would a politician do something that costs them power? Why did they do it for the ACA? They KNEW it would cost them Congress. Several reps and sens went to Obama and explained this and they were told to take "one for the team." Because I think with ACA they expected a huge vindication in the long run. Similar to Social Security, for example. And trust me, if Dems to push a real, universal health care reform, like in Great Britain or Canada, or most other developed countries, Republicans won't be in power for a generation at least. This is the reason they are fighting it so hard. OTOH, with the gun bans I don't think anyone expects long term results - this is done strictly to curry short term favoritism with voters. I repeat my question - who are Hillary voters, and why are they against guns? If you answer these two questions, you will understand her position perfectly. |
| Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:17 pm |
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Site Supporter  Location: Seattle Joined: Tue Jul 5, 2016 Posts: 682
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The president cannot reverse Heller.
There is no sky actually hitting the ground there. _________________ "When I have your wounded." --Major Charles L. Kelly, callsign "Dustoff", refusing to acknowledge that an L.Z. was too hot, moments before being killed by a single shot, July 1st, 1964. |
| Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:53 pm |
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Site Supporter Location: Nova Laboratories Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 Posts: 18454 Real Name: Johnny 5
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Jammer Six wrote: The president cannot reverse Heller. There is no sky actually hitting the ground there. They can appoint judges who will gut it using other cases to narrow the scope of the ruling. _________________ NO DISASSEMBLE! Thomas Paine wrote: "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." |
| Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:18 pm |
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